Do you think that certian styles?

Question

Do you think that certian styles, for someone with little or no martial arts training, lend themselves to be trained at the same time then others? Nothing against cross training. I am just wanting opinions on whether certian styles are easier to cross train with another for a beginer, and still have both be effective and that person learn both well, as opposed to some styles that a person should train until say roughly brown belt level before starting another style.

Hopefully I got across what I am asking.

Answer 1

you should have a good base in one style and keep that as a base before you crosstrain.it's better to crosstrain in simple styles such as boxing,muay thai and bjj/submission wrestling.that would depend on what level you are at in your base martial art,once you attain a high level(2nd degree or above)then crosstrain in a harder style.

Answer 2

A beginner trying to learn two martial art styles at the same time is like trying to learn two musical instruments at the same time.

It's hard enough to learn guitar well enough to play with or in front of other people - it just takes longer if you try to divide your energy between playing guitar and playing saxophone.

It's easier (not the same thing as better) to learn all about how to make music with one instrument, then picking up another one.

Wing chun has great methods for teaching you how to use your body, Taichi has great methods of teaching you how to use your body, and some Okinawan styles do, too.  But if you try to do two or three at the same time, you're less likely to succeed in any one of them - as a beginner.

Cross-training is great, if you already have a true level of proficiency in one style, then any other style should be easy to understand and adapt to.  

Note: I'm talking about traditional styles (Okinawan, Chinese, Indonesian...).  The asker is a traditional stylist.

Answer 3

I believe that all styles can be cross-trained. However, I do agree that some are a bit easier to do that with than others.

The more compartmentalized and focused a style is, the better suited it is for cross-training. For instance, boxing and wrestling. They focus on different aspects of fighting, hence the teachings wont interfere with eachother. The down side of being so compartmentalized is that one won't have the ability to fluidly merge the techniques together, unless they have a venue in which they can practice all ranges simultaneously.

On the other hand, if arts are relatively similar in terms of content but different in principal, things get  bit more messy. For instance, western kickboxing and Kyokushin Karate. They both include punches and kicks, yet the strategies and principals are pretty different. Western Kickboxing, like Boxing, generally emphasizes a stick and move strategy. Kyokushin Karateka, however, will often stand and bang (akin to Muay Thai fighters). Cross training in those two arts would not only be redundant, but I could also see it becoming very confusing for completely beginners.

A personal example that I would like to site is one of my own experiences. When I started to practice grappling, I was training at a Judo club and the MMA gym that I train at now. I found that it was very difficult for me to retain what I'd learned from my Submission Grappling and Judo classes. While the content was similar (takedowns, pins, sweeps, and submissions), the strategies and methods for performing said techniques were often different. In the end, I decided to quit my Judo class because I wasn't picking anything up from it any more.

I'm sure, though, that if I had a year of experience in either Judo or Submission Grappling first, I could have gotten decent results by cross training at both of these clubs. However, that really wasn't working for me at that time, as I had no previous grappling experience to fall back on.

And, to me, that says it all. With a bit of experience and a decent foundation, you can cross train in anything. However, when you're first starting, the more compartmentalized and separate the arts are, the better. (Of course, you'll later want to practice blending these different techniques together.)

Good question.

Answer 4

i think most you could cross train with a little success.  

One you can't crosstrain:  Kung Fu.  Kung Fu requires 100% attention and practice

Answer 5

I think that, if someone has little or no martial arts training, then they should stick to one style - no matter what it is - until they have some experience. Then it'd be ok to cross train in something else. To get the best out of any style of martial arts, it takes a lot of commitment, particularly for someone who isn't used to the kind of training that they're going to have to do.

If a beginner concentrated on one style to begin with, then they'd have time to get used to controlling their body and executing moves without that kind of awkwardness that beginners usually have. It'd also be easier for them to concentrate on the various techniques that style requires them to use, without confusing them with techniques from another art.

They'd also have more time to train because they aren't dividing their time between two different activities, meaning they could pick up the basics quicker.

Thats all for now. I have to go.

EDIT - Ok, now I'm back for more!!

In addition to becoming confused with the techniques from two different arts, a beginner would have the added pressure of training for 2 different gradings. Most people just don't have the time to train that hard if you put work/school/college/other interests into the equation. And personally, I think it's better to keep it simple at the beginning, then you'll have a clear enough understanding to deal with the complicated stuff later on.

I think after getting a reasonable amount of training (I'd say 1 or 2 belts before black belt) it can be a good idea to cross train. If you choose to cross train in a martial art that makes up for what yours lacks (e.g. starting in a striking art, then moving onto a grappling one) then it can really improve your skill set.

Answer 6

I think cross training before you have a solid foundation will lead to bad habits.

I completely agree that you should have a base foundation before you build the house so to speak.

That was a mistake I made that I still can see in my technique.  I did Kenpo for only 1 year, then did Goju-Ryu for only 1 year, then Northern Longfist Kung Fu for only 1 year, then Tae Kwon Do for 2 years, then back to Kenpo for another year, then "Freestyle Karate" (Early MMA with low grappling influence) for about 3 years.  In the mean time I dabbled with boxing, kickboxing, Aikido and Tang Soo Do.  Now I'm training in WTF Tae Kwon Do, Hapkido and then I go to another gym and train boxing and Adult MMA with heavy grappling.  Over the winter I did a combo groundfighting class of Pancrase and BJJ (with Gi).  

I have alot of sparring experience and am well rounded, but I also have a lot of bad habits.  In hindsight, I really wish I would have done Kenpo for the first 5 years before I branched out to learn everything else.

I disagree that karate and TKD are harder to cross train with.  Kung Fu I agree, it's more complex and circular, but karate and TKD I think I pretty easy to blend in with other styles.

James

Answer 7

little or none?

no, they should only focus on one style...give it their full attention...as i stated before my gym offers BJJ and Boxing, thats it...and it doesnt neccesarily promote cross training, but i would imagine that they offer them with the knowledge that its a popular mix and one that compliments each other...

Myself, when i started training, i waited many months and a few promotions before even thinking about the beginners boxing class, and im glad i did...

I think having one class after another of two different things could throw off a beginner...

im not saying what i do is a great thing, maybe its bad in the eyes of others, but i think i have a good pace and attention span where im at and with what im learning....

I will say that maybe not all, but some, MMA schools are frowned upon by our instructors concerning letting people with no martial arts background train in MMA..

think about it, how do you teach someone who is uncoordinated, striking, defense, takedowns, ground game, etc...when they have no experience with martial arts whatsoever...

so i guess theres many benefits to cross training, but if applied incorrectly or too early, a watered down student may be the product of such training...just my opinion.

Answer 8

Well, personally I believe that only one system should be studied at a time for a beginner. Only after they have spent enough time to really learn a specific method of fighting, should they branch out to different styles.

I say this because they're still learning basic body mechanics, and basic fighting concepts. If they train at two different schools, they could get confused as to how to apply a technique, or they will lack in the mastering of their own body.

That said, if they're experienced then h**l yeah branch out! It's amazing the things one can learn from a different method of thinking.

The only thing I could really think of that would be a decent mixture for a beginner, would have to be, a purely striking art  mixed with a purely grappling art... IE Kyukoshin&JJ.

Answer 9

I think that in order to train 2 MA styles effectively they have to be totally different to be learned correctly.  If they are at all similar - particularly for a new or untrained student - they will be confused with each other.  

Fundamental kicking arts for example - a new student taking Muay Thai Kickboxing and Tae Kwon Do at the same time could easily confuse himself with the different stances, principles of attack and angle, and delivery (instep vs shin strike, snap vs push, wide stance vs deep stance).  It is not necessarily bad to know each, but can hinder a students ability to progress in one art.

Grappling arts vs Striking arts generally have much less cross-over, so I think it would be less confusing to a new student to study say Judo and Western Boxing.  Nobody will confuse a 4 punch combo with a hip-throw.

If I were making recommendations to a prospective student, I'd say take one art until you become proficient - the recommendation of brown belt seems reasonable.  Then study another art to enhance your skills and make your knowledge base deeper.  

If they insisted on "cross training" I'd advise them to train 2  un-related arts and to advise their instructors what they are doing.  Many instructors will take a persons pre-existing knowledge or other training into consideration when teaching, particularly for more advanced students.

I personally progress better studying striking arts separately from grappling arts, but if a person really wants to learn stand-up and ground fighting simultaneously, there are plenty of schools and styles that will allow that.   Shooto, Chuteboxing, Hapkido, Catch Wrestling, Generic "MMA" schools, and Katana's favorite Krav Maga come to mind - as well as many of the traditional arts from Japan and China.

Answer 10

Honestly I am with Bluto, I think that it is up to the individual.

I do think that it is easier to cross train between two different type of styles. For example a striking style and a grappling style, mainly because it is easier to not confuse names of techniques or the slight variations between one art to the next.

For example if combining Hapkido and Aikido, (one Korean, one Japanese) you could easily confuse terminology, customs, or slight variations because they are very similar arts.

However if you do say Goju Karate and Judo, you won't really run into anything confusing, since one deals with mostly striking and the other deals with grappling. I think that lends itself together well.

There are some cases in which one art complements the other. Say Judo and BJJ, while both are grappling, they actually lend themselves very well to cross training and making a practioner stronger. A person who does BJJ and Judo together is a better Judo player from BJJ and a better BJJ player from Judo.  There aren't a lot of arts that lend themselves this way, but there are some.

I personally don't think a person needs to reach high level in any art before cross training. I think from day one, if a person has time to devote to more than one art, then they should do it. They may have to accept that there will be a longer learning curve in a particular art if they don't spend as much time on it, but that is it.

It isn't that they will some how suffer from branching out and learning other things from the beginning. They may end up behind other classmates, but at the end they will be ahead.

For example, a person learning Judo and boxing.

They spend 3 days a week at each.

Keep in mind the average person trains their art about 3 days a week in the dojo, but let's say  another student spends more time doing private lessons, or doing Judo at another place and trains 6 days a week in Judo.

Obviously at the end of a years time, the person who has been doing Judo 6 times a week is going to be a head of the guy who only does Judo 3 times a week and cross trains in boxing 3 times a week..

However, at the end of 2 years, or 3 years, or 5 years. The proficeincy difference isn't that noticeable, and the guy who cross trained is also further ahead of the curve as he also has a striking art in his repetoire and boxing footwork to go with Judo. So both guys would have 3 years of Judo, but one has 3 years of Judo and 3 years of boxing.

The more tools in your tool belt the better. I don't think a person hurts themselves cross training ever. They may put themselves at a slight learning advantage versus someone who concentrates solely on one art. However the person who cross trains will be further along as a complete Martial Artist.

It's all about time put in. Let's say it takes 500 hours to get to black belt. Obviously the guy who goes more will acheive it quicker, and the one who goes less will acheive it slower. I do believe there is a threshold in which you suit yourself better by sticking to one thing.

Obviously if you only have 6 hours a week to train, you are better off training in one thing. However if you have 10 or 12 hours a week to devote to training, then you have adequate time to cross train.

I don't think certain arts lend themselves better for cross training, I just thinking certain combinations of arts are easier for cross training for a beginner.

Answer 11

pick one and learn that one don't flip flop

Answer 12

We have two very different arts at our school. I find it very helpful because as I get older the Taekwando I originally trained in is not working like it used to and certain moves I have replaced with some of the other art. This has been very helpful on the one hand and very frustrating on the other.

We recommend that our students do not cross train or take on another art at our school until they reach at least a black belt level or brown sash in our Wing Chun Kung Fu. Arts such as Wing Chun Kung Fu and Taekwando are so different as to really confuse the student, especially the beginner. It is I believe about learning the principals with the moves. This sort of goes with your other question about teaching moves or technique and principals. When a pupil has a good grasp of principals I think they can benefit from cross training. I think cross training too soon produces a student that sucks at two arts instead of just one.

Answer 13

You got it across...

For me, and this is just my opinion, I would not recommend anyone cross train in another art until they have developed expertise in one art to use as their foundation on which to build on.

This is based on what I learned from my Taiwanese Teacher, who can learn any art, just by looking at it. He taught me this method and it's the reason I can help practitioners of different styles find applications in their art.

So once you have developed solid foundation in one, the others are just a reference away.

Answer 14

Well, I'm still such a beginner :) I started 'playing with' other stuff through seminars...but not until I'd been studying kenpo 5 years maybe...That's even still so new. I just had my hands full grasping all of the concepts & practice lol (no prior martial arts training; heavy bag and speed bag, but really just to blow off steam and exercise, it helped a little I guess, but it wasn't until I was a martial artist that I started learning more about boxing techniques ,too :) ). Anyway, not that I'm all an expert or anything , but I have a good base in my style now. Which probably means I don't have a clue and am ready to start learning.

So I feel comfortable checking other things out now (for the last couple of years). I practice a hapkido flow drill because some of our techniques use joint manipulation and I feel it helps me (whenever I can find victims that is :) , I practice my sticks because I think it complements my karate training. Some of the things I've done are just for exploration, like sais and tai chi. I do look at other styles and appreciate different things from them (all). I used part of a krav maga (god, I've this so many times today, I should know how to spell) gun disarming technique for 1 of weapons techniques I had to make up to get to red belt. I will probably look at cross training in some of these areas after I get my black: krav maga ,muay thai, bjj or some type of ground defense, maybe pursue sais more and possibly bow. These are just things that personally interest me. But I get ahead of myself. I'm looking at a couple of more years til black. I remain primarily dedicated to that.

So, I started 'dabbling' at brown (our school browns are before reds then black)...about 5 years into my training.

Sorry this is long...I just thought of...I do actually benefit from these seminars and special classes. Other than the obvious of expanding my horizons and having fun and learning...I usually take at least 1 thing that I can apply to my karate and improve my techniques/katas/sparring.

Answer 15

depends on who is doing it and how much time they have to train.

If training in one art would require 3 2hour classes per week, i see no reason why if that lvel is maintained they cannot also learn another art.

There are some arts or their teachers who may get annoyed if you perform a Muay Thai roundhouse in their class.

You didn't spend a year doing english at school and then get introduced to maths and maths and physics complement each other and so it is with martial arts. Some complement each other so you learn better and faster and some don't have much to do with each other but give you a more rounded education. But occasionaly some can get annoyance from a teacher, like technical drawing in an art class.

Answer 16

You will see similarities in a lot of martial arts, because many times one martial art influenced another, which influenced another, on down the line. For example, what some in Taekwon-Do call a "Middle" stance, is often known as a "Horse" stance in Southern Shaolin Kung-Fu.

That said - No beginner should try cross-training, regardless of the martial art. I believe this to be true simply because 90% of the time, when someone is beginning martial arts, they have incredibly low flexibility, balance, stamina, and coordination. Often you will see people come in that either want to take martial arts to get in shape or learn to fight. This relates because it is going to be almost impossible for a person to learn the art of martial arts while training in two different styles, because one will be only memorizing the moves, rather than mastering them.

The free time you have from one art is not best spent training another in my honest opinion, but rather in training your foundation, so that perhaps later on, with the approval of your instructor (most schools will require this anyway), you can perhaps move on to other arts to further you skill set.