Do you think this child should be taken away?

Question

I live in a small town and have a police scanner. About 45 days ago, there was a call (VERY hot day for our area), that a newborn was in a car parked in the Walmart parking lot. The manager was outside with the car. The police responded, although I'm not for sure, I believe they took the child away for 30 days and had the mother go to parenting courses.

Yesterday, listening again, the same policeman was called back to the same Walmart with the same child left in the car (cooler day). He called for backup as soon as he got there, and asked that they get there before the mother came out of the store, because this was his 2nd call to the same car. He said several other words we won't mention. Do you think after leaving the child in the car twice, that she should or should not be reunited? BTW, she's 25, and a reasonably intelligent person normally.

Answer 1

Not only do I think they should take her child away, but they should take your police scanner away too.

Aren't they also illegal?

Answer 2

It sounds to me like this mother needs some HELP. He child does not deserve to lose his or her mother without someone actually HELPING them first.

It seems like people are so quick to punish but so slow to HELP. Why hasn't this mother recieved services?! It sounds like the COMMUNITY is falling down on its job.

I agree what she has done is dangerous, but she and her child, from what you have said, do not sound as if they are getting any support - only judgement, which tends to make bad situations worse in my experience.

ETA: I feel I need to further explain my answer:

We have not been given all the details here. Seems like people are quick to remove a child based on a third-hand account of what happened and a brief bit of info at that. I would hate to have people want to take MY child based on that info!! We do not know the entire circumstances. While what she did was wrong, dangerous and neglectful here are several holes here!

Having worked closely with DSS I can tell you that there is NO WAY they actually removed this child for 30 days and gave it back. It takes about that long for a case to simply be adjudicated!! There is no way CPS would have removed a child, gotten Court approval to do so, been adjucicated, entered a case plan, COMPLETED a case plan and had a Judge sign off on returning this child. CPS, DSS and Family Court just don't move that fast!!

There must be things we are not hearing.

As a child advocate I have been trained to realize that hearing one side of a story NEVER gives you all the info you need to make choices like removing a child.

YES, ABSOLUTELY, what she did is wrong and dangerous and she should get in trouble if she endangered her child, but to inflict the trauma of SEPARATION without knowing as much as possible about the situation and without exhausting all other avenues of assisting this mother make better choices and properly care for her child is both irresponsible and cruel.

I am NOT excusing her, she NEEDS to know that this is unacceptable and dangerous. She should be seriously reprimanded and educated.

I just feel that there are alternatives to immediate SEPARATION. For example, barring her from driving with the child in the car, setting her up with a mother's helper, ACTUALLY having a case plan with resources and education that can help her be a better mother, etc.

I am also wondering how many of the people who want to take her child are perfect parents?! THERE IS NO SUCH THING!! Is there nothing you have ever done or not done with or for your child that someone might over react to and want to take YOUR kids?

People need to calm down and get the WHOLE story is all I'm saying. Imagine if we all snatched kids from everyone we heard wasn't a perfect parent! There would be no families left!!

I am all for removing children when necessary, and have even been the first one to recommended it several times. I just like to be pretty darn sure I'm not basing my opinions on hearsay and assumptions before I make a decision that can effect a family FOREVER.

Answer 3

To the poster who wrote about the principle who left her child in the car.  I agree, what a sad tragedy.  Is that what we need to happen before something is done?  Why, when it was reported that she had done this before, was she given a second chance?  And, why are you outraged about this case, but not the one in the OP?  The child hasn't died yet.  Do we have to wait for that to happen?  Or, is it because the principle is more affluent and that is the problem?  

I am outraged about both cases.  I think the principle was given a second chance and it turned out disasterous.  The other woman was given a second chance and was nothing but lucky.  Had the principle's daughter survived that, do you think she should've been given a third chance?  

Also, you mentioned that the principle's daughter was adopted.  I never read that and just searched to see if I could find out if she was.  I didn't find anything.  If you have a link, I would be interested in reading that.

Answer 4

If this has happened before, then she can't claim she didn't know what she was doing is wrong.  Although, I find that excuse hard to believe anyway.  If she did it again, after having been given a second chance to not be a complete negligent idiot, then yes, the CHILD deserves another chance, not the mother.  The child should be removed and placed in a home where the baby hasn't already been placed in danger.  

I wonder how you know she's a reasonably intelligent person.  Do you know her?  If so, your personal feelings toward her aren't getting in the way of judging the situation, are they?

ETA:  I don't normally place any stock in the thumbs up and down on here, very high school, imo.  However, seeing all the thumbs down on here is very telling.  CLEARLY there are many on here who place the interests of the mother far above the safety of the child.  How sad.  I realize that adoption is difficult on some children, but there is therapy that can help most of that.  Is that really worse than being cooked in a car?  Kidnapped from the car?  Get real people.

Answer 5

I'm guessing she's a single mom.  Maybe you could offer to babysit for her when she goes shopping.  Maybe you could tell her you know all about her public humiliation via your police scanner, and tell her all about what you think she should do.

As far as the people who SHOULD be involved in what happens to her (i.e. DHS, the police), maybe she needs to spend a night or two in jail, and someone should point out to her that she could kill her child that way.  Maybe the judge could require her to retain a babysitter one day a week so that she can run all her errands.

I don't know what should happen to her.  Honestly, I'm not a police officer or a DHS worker for a reason.  I couldn't handle making those decisions.  It is NOT my job, nor is it yours, to judge others and determine whether or not they should be allowed to raise their own children.  Let people who do those jobs, do their jobs.

Answer 6

Who would do such a thing?! I don't care if it's cold, hot, or warm out! You don't leave a baby...or any child for that matter...unattended in a car! I think they should definitely keep the child away from her. She's obviously not a fit mother.

Answer 7

The mother may be a great person - but, leaving a child (no matter the age) is negligent and she should be charged with child endangerment.  

The good news is that the child lived through both situations - otherwise the mother would be facing one form of  murder charges.

I know being a parent is tough and EVERYONE makes mistakes - but that child could have died, been kidnapped... the first time.  I hope she gets some serious parenting help and is eventually reunited with her child (as you wrote: she's 25, and a reasonably intelligent person normally).  If she truly forgot - then she has hope - but needs to comprehend that her child could have been harmed or taken.

If she was being lazy and was just running into walmart to pick up something - thinking it would be a few minutes - then she needs to get into classes and see the research on how many children die - within minutes - of being left in a car.  If she does this and puts the child first, then I think she should be reunited with her child - but ONLY after she has the tools and has proven herself capable of caring for this little one.

There are always 2 sides to each story - but the bottom line is that her child was put in danger.  So many parents think that it's ok to leave the kids in the car cuz (I know it's a pain to get everybody out, then get them back into car seats, etc.) "they will only be a second."

It only takes a second for a child to be kidnapped.

Let's hope this 2nd time around leads to a happy ending. I pray for the child and the Mother.  From what you wrote, she sounds like she needs help and tools.  Being a mother - you don't get instructions.  And if she wasn't taught how to care for a child - then I think she's not ready.  But, the bottom line is that leaving a child in a car - ALONE - is something she should have known "being reasonably intelligent".

A long post to get to your question.  In my opinion, for now, I think the child should be taken away until the mother realizes that once you have a child - it's not about you anymore.  The child comes first - and the safety of that child needs to be a priority as little ones are vulnerable.  Once she gets the proper "parenting" skills - maybe they can be reunited.  I do not however, think that she shouldn't be able to see the child while getting more skills and classes.  The first 30 days didn't seem to help.

Too many children die while left in cars.  It happens quite often - but doesn't always get the press and awareness this issue needs.

Answer 8

I think they should remove the child.

We've had our 10 month old son for almost three months now.  At first, I'd call friends to watch him because I didn't want to take him into Walmart (and places like that) with me because I thought it was too much of a hassle. I come to find though, that he actually seems to enjoy looking at the different things and the people and such...why not take the baby in?

I also know of a case where the dad left his son in the car and went to work in the bank all day.  Of course the boy was dead at the end of his shift but they didn't charge him with murder. I think it was though.

Answer 9

I think we should take away this woman's car. That seems to be the problem.

Are you sure she actually had the child taken away last time? Are you sure she actually had to go to parenting classes? It would be in the child's best interest to remove them from this situation temporarily, but none of us can judge if it should be permanent without knowing all the facts.

Answer 10

She's been caught and had the cops called about her leaving her newborn alone in the car twice?  Makes you wonder how many times she has done it and *not* been caught?  I suspect this woman has a chronic problem.

There should definitely be further investigation into the situation - not knowing the whole story, I won't speculate on what I think should be done.  But there definitely should be a thorough assessment of the situation to determine if she's a fit parent.

(Also...its easy to take a newborn in the store with you.  You just grab the handle on the infant seat and go.  The real challenge comes when the baby outgrows that seat...if the woman can't even handle carrying her infant into the store with her, what is she going to do when that baby becomes a sleeping toddler?)

Answer 11

Yes, I agree that the child should be removed from her care.

Answer 12

I would say yes absolutely even more that she was given a chance  they gave her parenting classes yet she again left the baby in the car. Shame on this woman, even if it was cooler, someone could have decided to snatch the child. Clearly this young woman is not yet mature to be a parent. The child should be removed from her care, perhaps a relative could care for the child instead.   This is just an accident waiting to happen lots of children die each summer because they are left in the car, some are accidents.  Very true she’s probably done it more times but was just not caught.

Answer 13

This Mother should definitely loose her baby. She is putting this innocent child's life in danger. I cant believe this Mom would leave her child in a car alone like this. Thank God this child is still alive. You have every right to call CPS and tell them you feel that if they give this child right back to this sick mother complaints should be filed against the case worker. Also the prosecutor should be filling charges against this so called mother. This mother should be in jail. Our Walmart would have already banned this woman from the store.

John I agree with you. All the thumb downs on here is a telling sign of how important some people think children are. My answer stands. I couldn't care less if this mother hurts or not. This little baby cant defend its self.  To all giving thumb down Grow up.  Let us strap you in a car with the heat, not even able to get your self a drink and see how sorry you feel for the mom then.

Answer 14

Yes I think she should definetly lose her child.  Once may have been a terrible accident, or maybe somehow she didnt know better.  I have 3 children and the other day I went to a doctors appt. with my 5 week old.  I pulled into a gas station and got out of the car to prepay.  I shut the door and took a step away from the car and my heart sunk.  I had forgotten that my son was in the car with me.  It was the first time I'd taken him out with me, and I couldn't believe I had forgotten about him.  Even though I was within arms reach of the car I still couldn't help but feel awful that I forgot about him.  Any mother should feel this way.  How anyone could go shopping with her child in the car and not worry that she'd come out to him dead or kidnapped is beyond me. Im sure they warned her about the risks of leaving him in the car, they probably even tried to scare her out of doing it again, and as soon as she gets him back she does it again?  she obviously doesn't care if she doesn't have him.

Answer 15

yeah, sounds to me that this child should be taken from her and given to a family that will not forget about him/her!!!!!

Answer 16

Seeing that she did this again, at the SAME place, when she JUST got her child back, knowing that the baby could be taken away for good this time, leads me to believe that she doesn't really care what happens to her baby. It's not that difficult to put the carseat in the cart and take the baby in the store, so maybe there's somehting else going on.

Perhaps she has post-partum depression or other mental problem, explaining her lack of concern for the baby's safety. Maybe she's on drugs, and forgets the baby's even with her. However, no matter what the reason is, it's obvious the baby's safety is at risk, and who knows what else is going on at home (is she forgeting to feed her, leaving her at home alone?) so I think the baby should be removed temporarily while the mother under goes counselling to find out what's really going on.

If the mother is not wiling to take the steps nessisary to ensure this doesn't happen again, after she's gotten help, then the baby should not be returned only to have her taken away a few weeks later.

Answer 17

First, yes; the child should be removed from the parent(s).  Putting a child in a life threatening situation willingly and knowingly needs to be addressed immediately before further harm comes to the child.  

Secondly, if the police officer did NOT remove the child from the parent(s) immediately, then action should be taken against the police department.  As I understand it, police officers have the right to remove a child (who is in harm) and place the child with Child Protective Services.  If the police returned the child to the parent(s) after the second incident, then I would be alarmed there as well.

Answer 18

Well, I live in the desert southwest and every year there are three or four babies/young children (and ten times as many pets) that die from being left in a car in a parking lot.  One of the reasons that passer-bys don't always spot the children or animals in distress is that everyone has very dark tints on their windows and unless there is a lot of movement/noise, a casual observer won't see anyone left inside.

I look at it this way: if that woman left her dog in the car, Animal Control would have taken the animal.  No question.  

So why is the government protecting the dog more than they are the child?

Second offense, absolutely.

ETA: So how many times does a parent get to commit child endangerment before someone steps in?  When the child finally dies from being left inside a hot car for too long?

ETA2: So for people that are concerned about the woman needing help, how do you know that she needed help in the first place?  You're jumping to the conclusion that because no husband is mentioned, she MUST be some poor, uneducated single mom who is just too overwhelmed to know that it's bad to leave a newborn in a hot car.  Do you make the same excuses for people that horribly abuse their children because they were just too overwhelmed?  

I'm amazed.  Seriously. Just because she is a bio parent, she automatically MUST be a good parent in distress?  Wow.  Interesting perspectives.

Answer 19

The child needs to be placed in foster care.  The mother then should be required to attend classes on parently that usually take 6 months, then they can be reunited.

Answer 20

Parenting classes and the temporary loss of her drivers license. This happens more often the people think even with adoptive parents. I don't think the child should be taken away and put up for adoption because of this. That's ridiculous and only someone desperate for a baby would even suggest she lose custody.

Where I live some soccer mom left 6 kids in the car because it was quicker than dragging them all in. I said something to her about it being unsafe and that she should make them all wear seat belts, its the law.

Earlier this year, a high school principal left her adopted toddler in the car for about 5 hours at work. She was running late and had to fit in an unexpected donut run for the teachers before going to work. The  child died and this parent wasn't even charged. True story. I guess they thought since she was a principal, she  was being honest about forgetting that she didn't drop the child off a preschool. Maybe she just forgot she adopted a child. She should be serving life in prison for being reckless with the life of child placed in her care by a mother that was unable to care for her child.

Liz G: In response to your question for me: I am disgusted that a child died and that woman was not charged with anything. She's free to adopt again and probably will. I'll look for a link. It was all over the news because too many agency's in the area are placing children in bad homes where kids are dying left and right.

As far as not being outraged about the Op's post. I see it happen all the time especially kids not being buckled up.   I don't agree with it at all and agree intervention is necessary but there are many other things that bother me as well, like driving down the street talking on the phone. Should we take their children away as well. Taking kids out of the homes isn't a solution to that ignorance. Education is the solution but too many people just don't want to be bothered with looking at real solutions, whether it be for an agenda or not. I think every person that becomes a parent should have to go through classes on proper parenting but then again many consider that on the same level as losing their right to bare arms.

Answer 21

OMG! Why should you ever leave a baby in a car alone?!

I don't think that is nessesary, I mean think of things that would happen to the infant!

Answer 22

I agree with Freida G.  I would just like to add that the weather  (while if extremely hot) isn't the only issue.  A parent should never leave her child alone in a car.

Answer 23

the baby does not need to live like that

Answer 24

She has clearly been negligent and the fact that she has been caught twice makes me think that she has done this other times as well and is either stupid or dangerously absent-minded or simply doesn't care.

OR, she could be overwhelmed or suffer from a mental illness.

Regardless, her child could have died.

Do I think she should lose her child, well no, not quite. I believe she should be monitored, heavily, and she should be required to take parenting classes. Also, I would like to see her family get involved. For if it is proven that she is negligent, then perhaps a family member can take temporary custody.

Answer 25

yes! you never leave a baby alone period...in a car, a room, a yard, period.

the baby could have choked or any number of things...that baby needs to be taken away ASAP

Answer 26

If in fact this is the same mother, it is clear she had not learned, how dangerous this is. We are talking life or death here for this baby.

The more I think about it, Yes, the baby should be removed.

She does not have a valid reason why she left the baby in the car.