Do you think this punishment is too harsh?

Question

My 4th grader has become a lier. We have tried taking away TV, computer, grounding, etc. My husband and I were at a complete loss. Well, the other day my daughter conspired with her birth mother (who has visitation) that she was going to lie to us about attending softball practice. Her mom is required to take her. Anyway, they decided the night before that she would get ready and tell us she was going and take all of her stuff with her, and then not go. Well, we found out because my husband had to stop up at her practice and drop something off to the coach. We confronted her about it and she fessed up, her reasons for giving up practice were lame, and she had no excuse for lying to us. My husband gave her a 3 page paper to write on lying and responsibility. She usually loves and looks forward to playing softball w/friends so it was really a shock. Her mom has convinced her that her punishment is too much and has told her not to do it and she'll bring it up in court.

Answer 1

thats so stupid.

Answer 2

Take your daughter off the team either she doesn't want to be on it or You should punish her by taking her offf the team because techanilly she isn't part of the team unless she id there with the team getting practice. The paper i think was dumb because yes it was a dumb thing to do, but Don't you think the mother had something to do about it too?

Answer 3

Yes I do think it is too harsh.  Yes, she can write the paper but will it change her attitude or will she simply write what you are expecting.  What happens next time she lies?  Instead, why not consider Restorative Justice.  This works with children and adults.  I know because I have used it with both.

Restorative Justice involves all the stakeholders in an issue.  In this case, your daughter, your husband, the birth mother, the coach (as the team has been let down) and yourself plus a moderator (neutral).  The last ingredients are honesty and time.

Restorative Justice is based upon a series of questions designed to elicit thoughtful responses followed by a means of fixing or resolving a problem.  The meeting does not conclude until the problem is fixed and all parties are in agreeance.  There are two types of questions depending who is the perpetrator and who is the victim.

When Things Go Wrong (to your daughter/birth mother)

1.  What happened?

2.  What were you thinking of at the time?

3.  What have you thought about since?

4.  Who has been affected by what you have done?  In what way?

5.  What do you think you need to do to make things right?

When someone has been hurt (parents & coach)

1.  What did you think when you realised what had happened?

2.  What impact has this incident had on you and others?

3.  What has been the hardest thing for you?

4.  What do you think needs to happen to make things right?

All participants are asked these questions because it is important for your daughter to hear and understand how her actions have affected everyone concerned.

The process does take getting used to but it is effective.

Answer 4

Oh, I like Archie's post! That sounds so inspired, I am going to have to try it with my daughter! She doesnt lie very often, but when she does they are whoppers!

I think you need to stick to your guns. You are doing the right thing so long as you are consitant. When you hand out the punishment stick to it.

Remind your daughter that she has the ability to create an honest reliable relationship with yourself and her father, and if she expects to be trusted in the future, then she has to lay the brickwork now! Reward her when she is honest!

You really need to bring this sort of thing up in court. You don't want to alienate the birth mother from her life, but you want to make it blatantly clear to the birth mother how destructive she is being to her child's life...not your's, not your husband's, but her own child! Also remind her that what goes around comes around, and it wont be long until her daughter will use her well taught skills against her own mother! I wish you the best of luck, I can't imagine the stress you are under.

Answer 5

There is no one punishment that works for all children.  No one knows the history your child has with her mother.  Maybe you and your husband could consider counseling.  There might be a reason for her willingness to deceive you.  I think the punishment fits.  I'm sure you have explained the consequences for lying.  If this is not getting through to her counseling might help.  It could at least give you an idea of what is going on in her mind.

Answer 6

It sounds like the birth mother is putting your daughter in the middle of her conflict with you.  That's really messed up that she would encourage your daughter to lie to you.  It's also really messed up that she encouraged your daughter to skip practice.  I think it's pretty obvious where this lying habit is coming from.

All kids lie - all people lie in certain situations  -- it's hard for kids to learn what's an acceptable lie (do you like my new blouse? Sure boss, it's pretty) versus something major like where they plan to be that afternoon.  

There has to be something your daughter cares about. If she doesn't mind being alone, make her punishment to volunteer in the church nursery.  I don't think what you came up with is too harsh, but it doesn't really get to what she would mind giving up. And it would be really hard to enforce it, especially with her other mother backing her up.

Answer 7

Deal with it in court, dont be to harsh cause it seems like her mother is out for some kinda sick revenge using her own child. I am at a complete loss of words on what you should do, talk to your husband and get to court fast (probably consider decreasing visitation with the mother since she is having such a negative effect). Good Luck!

Answer 8

i like the idea. then discuss it with her. make her see why it will work out badly for her

little kids lie at the drop of a hat. they might not even know the difference. that's not the problem. the problem is getting them to see that it doesn't pay off. her bm isn't helping.

Answer 9

True, the fact that your 4th grader lied is inexcusable but I'd be concentrating on how to report the birth mother to whatever court gave her visitation since it was her who convinced your daughter to lie about the softball practice.  Yes, there needs to be consequences but you have to consider the source.  Let her go ahead and bring it up in court - she is clearly unfit (which is why she has visitation) and that should be squared away then.

Answer 10

Yes its weird but not harsh

Answer 11

You have a bigger problem The fact that the mother is encouraging her to deceive you is serious. I'd be the one to go to court and try and get the visits either stopped or supervised. She may think that by lying to you she is pleasing her mother or that you will get fed up and give her back. Sounds like the kid could use a good therapist.

Answer 12

of  course mama thinks its too harsh, from your account she helped her set the deception up! from where i am, that is a perfect punishment; you could also explain that lies are like ripples from a rock thrown in a pond, they affect the people around her, and she might not realize that. good luck, and i would encourage your husband and you to also visit this with the courts, because if mama is helping her lie about this, i would worry what else is she doing?

Answer 13

Not too harsh at all if HER MOM DID NOT HELP HER SET UP THE LIE!  She is probably so confused, I mean her own mother helped her lie!

Answer 14

I think it's a good punishment if it works. I don't think it will hold up in court and you (dad) should bring up the fact that she had her lie to you and not be where she was supposed to. My theory is that she is lying because her mother (birth) is telling her it's ok. Is she a liar also?  I'd ask her, "what if something happened to her and her mom, while she was supposed to be a softball? You guys would think she was there and ok, when really she'd be somewhere else hurt and scared."  

Good luck. It's really hard.

Answer 15

I think that is the most stupid punishment ever

Answer 16

i think you need to address the underlying issues here, the punishment is fine, but it will be hard to enforce when the mom is behind the scenes telling the child that its stupid and not to write it. Find out whats going on behind the scenes between the mom, the child and you guys. Bc this will just continue but in different ways. Why did she feel the need to lie, is there trust issues...what exactly is going through her head..

Answer 17

Of course you're at a loss, she has had television, computer, etc handed to her without needing to earn them, they mean nothing to her so taking them away is going to mean nothing.  Giving her a 3 page paper to write is only going to make her resent writing.   You are actually "punishing" the wrong person to begin with.  She is only behaving the way another adult has told her to behave.  She is only a child, and  in my home would be required to EARN television time, computer time, etc.  Those are to begin with privlieges in my home and not given simply because the child wants them.  

That said, it isn't the child who lied to begin with, it was her birth mother, so you are punishing the child for something the mother did...yeah I'd take you to court over that as well.  Obviously you have made the child responsible for the actions of her birth mother.  That's a lousy way to raise a child, your husband shouldn't have custody if that's the way you are raising the child.

Answer 18

If grounding her doesn't work, you should try to find more creative ways to show her that you mean business. i.e. If you tell her shes grounded, and she responds with "good, i like to be alone" then change up the definition of being "grounded" in your house. I was a pretty rebellious child, the only way my mom ever got through to me was with creative punishments....

good luck!

Answer 19

Too harsh? It seems more like too pathetic. I would talk to her about how bad it is to lie and that bad things can happen when she lies and what can happen to a child when they go off and the parents don't know where they are. I would also ask why she does those things. Maybe that will get you closer to the problem.

I'd pop that kid on the butt too for continuing to do it after that many times. You don't have to beat them for them to get the point but one lil pop will be enough to scare them sometimes. And really if poping my kid would keep them from lieing and going goodness knows where and possibly having more terrible things happen to them, popping really isn't such a bad alternative.

Really it's a weak punishment.

Answer 20

I think the punishment very well fits the "crime". But your daughter seems to be caught between conflicting parenting styles with you and her mother, so you need to address this problem. I don't know how it can be resolved in your specific case, but your girl will run into (and create) problems unless you can work this out soon.

Answer 21

It sounds like the mother is trying to make herself look better to your daughter.  Maybe she is looking to get her back.  I would have a nice long talk with her and don't be so nice.

What did they do if they did not go to softball practice?

I don't think it is a punishment I would give out, however if you feel it is appropriate then so be it.  

Is this the first time it has happened?  

Tell her to go ahead and bring it up in court and you would be happy to do the same.  It sounds like you daughter is going to be caught in the middle trying to please both of you so maybe you should get her a counsler to talk to.

Answer 22

I think it is a good punishment but also talk to her more about missing it

Answer 23

u r doing fine don't let her mom intimidate u with court. she just wants to justify not being the mother she should be. if u don't punish her for a small lie, eventually it will escalate to something bigger

Answer 24

your family needs counseling more than a writing assignment

Answer 25

I would go with the punishment as it stands but i would also sit her down and have a long talk with her that when she lied and cut practice not only did she dissappoint you but she also let her friends and her team down by blowing them off.  Once she joined the tteam she made a committment to be there for them.

Then I would call up the mother and let her know that from now on you will be taking the child to practice and she can pick her up from there.  I would let her know that using the child and having her lie to you is only hurting her because she is teaching her to lie to get what she wants and if she sees a parent doing it she will always feel it is ok and that your attorney will be addressing the issue in court.

Then I would call my attorney explain what is going on and see if he can not get some kind of emergency order to stop the visits.  This woman is abusing her chilod mentally and turning her against her parents.

I am in no way making excuses for your daughter what she did was wrong but at the same time she has a parent telling her to do it and it is ok.  The kid is caught right in the middle.