Do you think we're just arguing semantics when it comes to feminism and traditionalism?

Question

After some interesting discussions I've come to this conclusion.The biggest problem and cause of 99% of fights

between feminist and traditionalist is semantics.

Each ideology is so vast and contain many things. How do we go about truly defining them?

The moment a traditionalist hears the word feminist they are put on the defensive. The moment a feminist hears a word traditionalists they are put on the defensive. When a person goes on the defensive they are less inclined to hear the other out and easily angered at the slightest thing.

Sure people come with all different ideologies and it's hard to pinpoint those ideologies but unless we come to a universal agreement on what exactly a feminist and traditionalist is, we won't be able to have valid arguments without them falling in upon themselves.

Answer 1

Yes. Unless we come to a universal agreement on what exactly a feminist and traditionalist is, we will never establish fundamental definitions and thus our arguments are futile since were are coming from totally different points of view of what a feminist and traditionalist is.

Answer 2

Shamu, what you said in your first edit says it all.

And I beleive that the forming of sides is an excercise in imagination.

Answer 3

For the most part.

Answer 4

Well it is traditionalist to be intolerant of others, since that's traditional human nature.

All the incarnations of traditionalism and feminism are apparently incompatible, so that's likely what causes the real fights, the significance of semantics is negligible.

Answer 5

We are not talking so much about semantics as about realities but nevertheless your question has merit. I commend what Doodlebug has said, he makes some very salient points, as do others.

What traditionalism (or normalism, if your like) is varies from age to age. Unlike feminism, traditionalism is not an ideology. It is the normal state of things, the state of play at different points in time.

Feminism is an invented thing and is s*x-based and s*x-biased. Like naziism or fascism are race-based and race-biased.

As an equalist, I find those things incompatible with what I believe.

Answer 6

I think we do because we just don't understand each other.  It's almost like religious discussion.  If a person isn't willing to open  his or her mind to a different religion's perspectives, understand that religion, and discuss its beliefs, morals, etc...Then how do we plan to learn anything from each other?  It's almost like a closed picket fence.   It's the same thing here.  Even so called "Equalist" have this mentality.  This is the reason I do not compromise with any side of the "yard". No one is going to have a healthy discussion about it without rising to the defensive about something without admitting that their own side definitely is not perfect.  False accusations, even as a joke, are offensive to anyone involved in that joke.  Jokes about race, religions, sexual orientation, age("You are young and inexperienced" vs "You are old and out of modernity")..etc..

No one will understand each other and never will.  That's why I act silly and quiet.  Some of the discussion is actually very condesending.

Answer 7

The only problem with that is that the feminists here HAVE said time and time again what they believe in. But certain people insist on saying they believe otherwise. This was incredibly obvious to me when I first came here. (Unfortunately the question I asked re this was removed as it was deemed to be chatting.)

Personally the only serious knee jerk reaction I have is with anti-choicers. I simply cannot understand their point of view, it's so absurd.

edit

Example of person asking question directly to feminists, but then choosing a best answer from an anti-feminist. The asker isn't actually interested in what the feminists here truly believe:

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/ind...

Answer 8

A lot of confusion is created by people who insist that feminism is purely about equality, and because they are for equality, they are a feminist.

The confusion is caused by the fact that feminism is only about equality *on paper*. The dictionary definition and the reality are very different, and the feminists who trot out the dictionary definition time after time remind me of Chamberlain waving around the treaty he signed with Hitler http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxb0FGhs5...

i.e. the words are empty, and anyone who truly believes them is being betrayed.

Any woman who wants equal rights for women and men should be against feminism, because feminism is movement dedicated to gaining special rights for women e.g. special legal rights to punish men such as VAWA in the US, and putting men down e.g. "All men are rapists" etc.

Answer 9

Yes.  You covered pretty well in your question details what I would've said.