Does Hollywood shape peoples image of what a martial art should be able to do?

Question

There was a question that asked about people knowing the difference between self defense and fighting. It led me to wonder if Hollywood have shaped people's opinion of what a martial art should be able to do. When they see Segal, or Jackie Chan beat a bar full of people and barely get a scratch on them. I think it makes them think that it is very doable and not something that would require EXTREME luck in addition to being in top fighting form, if even possible at all if they really wanted to do you harm. Even in the films the other guys are in the back ground thinking it over or making fighting poses so that the hero is usually only fighting one person at a time. Great for the movies, but terrible for real life. What are your thoughts?

Answer 1

It's funny to watch one guy fight ten. They all take turns instead of all just jumping on him and tearing him to shreds!

Answer 2

Yes they do, they shape whatever's image in order to make it appealing, so the movie sells.

Answer 3

Absolutely. People take up martial arts for self defense. A person who attacks a martial artist is not going to know the person they are attacking is trained and they will be taken down immediately. I have never seen two people who both are trained in the martial arts battling it out for five minutes on the street.

It just doesn't happen.

Interesting side note: Some of the martial artists you see on TV or in the movies like Adrian Paul (Highlander), Jason Statham and Jean Claude Van Damme all got their starts as dancers!

Answer 4

hollywood shapes people's image of EVERYTHING in an incorrect manner.

get a team of accountants, hot dog vendors, garbagemen, lawyers, doctors, politicians, hitmen (ok you won't find those willing to go on film), gang members/former gang members, police, firemen, etc.

and they can all pick apart what hollywood does. what makes you think martial artists are immune from hollywood's taking liberties with reality?

Answer 5

YES and they are the source of a lot of the really dumb questions and answers on this forum.

You see people in these movies recieve a hard shot bare knuckle martial arts punch in the face and the make up dept. puts on a little dab of make to show a slight bruise when in reality what you should see is a deep gash with perhaps cheek bone showing thru.or a cavity where the nose used to be.

My daughter is an ophthamologist and her company has around 3000 clients for whom they have made artificial eyes .About 20% of their clients have lost an eye in street fights not from finger pokes or gouges but kicks and punches .

A few movies with that kind of reality would send the day dreamers and wannabes running for cover.

Answer 6

Uhhh...yeah.

Answer 7

Actually, if anything, Hollywood does real martial arts skill a diservice, and is insulting to them, rather than flattering.  I gather from your question that your view is that Hollywood "ups" martial arts.  That is, presenting levels of skill that are "impossible."  The truth is, Hollywood is, more than anything, insulting rather than flattering.

Its not impossible to have a self defense situation, and never get a scratch on you.  Furthermore its possible to attain levels of almost ridiculous skill.  For an example of what I am talking about please look up a video on youtube titled "shaolin vs karate."  The style being used by the guy in white is actually not Karate, but Tae Kwan Do.  What that video shows is skill that no Hollywood choreography can imitate and one thing more; in east asia, the men pitting their skills against each other, aren't even considered masters.  The TKD guy is just a highly ranked practitioner of Tae Kwan Do, and the Shaolin guy is just a high level monk.  In east asia the title of "master" is not lightly given.  If you must know what level the Shaolin monk is, the skill presented by him in that youtube vid is roughly 9th or 10th Dan.  Let that give you an idea, if you practice martial arts, how far you have to go AFTER you earn your black belt.  Even then, he would not be considered a master.

A master, a true master, their skill is well beyond that.  It is possible upon becoming a master, to do things BETTER than any Hollywood choregraphy.  In the real world, fights between skilled martial artists will last, at most, maybe, 5 seconds.  They won't drag on like they do in the movies, and modern Shaolin monks in the new temple in China, who are afiliated with with the Beijing Kung Fu institute, could probably dispatch attackers without a scratch.  Not with pretty choreography, but with lightning fast attacks and defensive maneuvers you wouldn't even see.

To answer your question more directly and not dance around though the short answer is yes.  People take Karate, or whatever, and once they see the real techniques they are dissapointed in that they can't do all the fancy girations, or all the cool stuff they see in the movies.  This is a problem with kids, more than adults.

Myself, I was lucky; because I grew up in Honduras, I was exposed to Kung Fu movies from the 1960's and 1970's, a time BEFORE Kung Fu movies were influenced by Chinese opera.  I looked at those movies, and the choreography was 100% martial arts.  No Peking opera dancing there; it was the actual moves, choreographed for entertainment of course.  The reason many who practice martial arts, prefer the old kung fu movies to the new ones, is because the old ones are more "pure" in terms of martial arts.  The forms you see in those movies, are forms you will see in the real world, with the moves exagerated and slowed down for entertainment of course.  There are a few acrobatic moves but its nothing compared to the shows put on by modern Hollywood and Hong Kong.

People from Latin America who grew up watching the old Kung Fu films, and the 1970's generation of people who took up martial arts, went in with a more realistic view presented to them.  This generation however, go in with their impressions shaped by stuff like Dragon Ball Z, Jet Li's "Black Mask" and of course the Matrix.  Indeed, in Tae Kwan Do matches, among the kids and teens, there are alot of retards who run around thinking a real match is an anime.  In anime, they do a lot of running, and because kids who take up martial arts these days are oversaturated with DBZ or like animes, they do way, way too much running in tourneys.  This is worrysome because when faced with a thug sometime in the future they will get their block knocked off, or worse.

Regarding your thoughts about one guy taking on an entire army, all unarmed of course except maybe for martial arts weapons, in that respect Hollywood is not wholy unrealistice because consider this for a minute.  Take Kobe Bryant, or for that matter any NBA player.  Now, have him play against, all by himself, against an entire team of weekend basketball players.  That is, I'm not talking ultra good street ballers here, I'm talking blue collar, mostly white and likely out of shape, weekend players, not guys who play all the time.  In a match with Kobe against out of shape weekend ballers who is going to win?  See?  Kobe is so far above them, he can take serveral of them at once, and win the game.  Even a full b-ball team compliment.  Of course Kobe by himself against, oh, the Miami Heat, even as bad as the Heat may be, they will still beat him because all of them together are more or less on his level.

What the movie is trying to show there is that the martial artist in question is in a different league, or possesses better training than the rest, so, in that respect at least the movies are not unrealistic.  A pro basketball player can, on his own, take on a high school team and beat them, or out of shape white collar weekend ballers.  Likewise, even Mike Tyson NOW, not when, in his own words he had "the guts" to be a good boxer, Tyson, even now, could probably defend himself effectively against 20 amateur boxers jumping him, even heavies.  And all the fancy stuff Tyson would do to protect himself would seem almost taken out of a Jet Li movie.  It would be "Jet Li," but with Mike Tyson, downing guys left and right.

That the movies do a diservice, especially modern ones?  Absolutely; because most of that is modified Peking Opera, which involves the use of acrobatics.  Indeed, Bruce Lee's own success in the movies, the reason modern martial arts movies today use Peking opera is because of him.  Prior to Lee, prior to Enter the Dragon, and even AFTER Lee's death, Kung Fu movies movie makers were purists.  They had actual martial artists, showing actual kung fu, but in an exagerated way.  Now, in the 1960's there WAS Peking opera used in some martial arts epics but with limited success.  It was Bruce Lee's incomporable charisma and onscreen pressence, which led Hong Kong movie makers to say "hey, lets use more Peking Opera from now on; Lee made it work, so if we make it better....."  And ever since then, virtually all martial arts films ever made, even the cheap B movie ones, have used Peking Opera techniques.

The best known Peking Opera expert, and a man who is actually a fully qualified traditional Chinese Opera actor, is Jackie Chan.  Jackie Chan believe it or not, is fully qualified to do traditional Chinese Opera, because that is what he trained in as a kid.  Chan himself even expressed a degree of distaste for the movie industry saying that sometimes he prefers to act in Chinese opera because its more an art form than entertainment.  In its own way, you need skill to entertain well at that level though.  Not only that but many martial artists have expressed the sentiment that training in Chinese opera, can actually be harder than training in Kung Fu, reason being the acrobatic movements required for Chinese opera go well beyond the requirements to make a movie.  In Chinese opera, its all you, so your acrobatics better be spectacular.  Indeed Lee himself, like his father, and like Jackie Chan, went through an abusive training regiment the result of which was his remarkable agility.

You need to understand, that martial arts movies are there to tell a story, not show real martial arts.  Kung Fu movies used to do that, and indeed many purists prefer the old movies because the new movies don't do that anymore.  If you want to see a movie showing "real" Kung Fu, there are artistic liberties taken, you should watch "Pushing Hands" although I'll warn you, it can be pretty boring unless you like Tai Chi.

Take time to think about it; in the real world, some people are so far above everyone else skill wise, if, say, Kobe Bryant were to play against out of shape white collar out of shape weekend players, he would win "without a scratch."  Without having "extreme good luck."  If Mike Tyson, even now, was jumped by 20 guys, all amateur fighters, he would bring all 20 of them down, without even so much as being hit.  Despite his size he would deftly and precisely bob and weave out of any oncoming attacks, and because only 8 men can attack at any given time from 8 directions, with his survival instincts kicking in, you would witness something taken out of an old school Kung Fu movie only that encounter would likely last, maybe, the space of 20 to 30 seconds.  It can easily be argued, that Tyson could effectively defend himself against 20 amateur fighters who jumped him.  Because, well, he's Mike Tyson.  Hollyfield his rival, could do the very same thing, because he would be that far above them.

The movies show all that stuff to let the audience know that the character is not merely "above" the bad guys, but a "true hero."  Someone whose skill isn't merely good, but "heroic."  Sadly most people don't take time to think, many people are egotistical and stupid and rather than humbly accepting simple day to day practice, they expect a given art to turn them into those "heroes."  Worse still are the sociopaths who take it up just so they can easily get away with hurting others without suffering consequences, that is, they want to hurt others, and they want to do it in a way that it is impossible for their victims to protect themselves, so they study martial arts.

I hope that answered your question.

peace out.

Answer 8

Hollywood screws up everything.

Answer 9

Since the 1920s Hollyweird has alway distorted any type of fighting, from: knife throwing, to knock-out punches, to wrestling,  to unrealistic martial arts techniques.

What is good about a movie emphasizing a single style, such as Hapikido in BILLY JACK, or Tae Kwon Do in WHEN TAE KWON DO STRIKES and even Aikido in ABOVE THE LAW, is that it will present how that particular style uses its signature techniques in an extreme self-defense situation.

Thus in ABOVE THE LAW you see the ideal presentation of Aikido's wrist locks and redirecting assaults.

Again, these are all 'ideal' presentations of a martial arts methodology, so Hollyweird might stretch things abit when the hero seems to be unbeatable.  But it would be a very short movie if the Shotokanist or Kung fu stylist or Judoka hero is killed in the first fifteen minutes of the movie.

Since Hollyweird is an entertainment business, and the bottom line is making money, then its natural that in a martial arts movie all the techniques and methods of a style be presented in a two hour format for ENTERTAINMENT.  Even though the unfortunate side-effect might be a distortion of the martial arts.

Answer 10

I definetly think yes, but i would also include now days the UFC and other fighting goups in that statement. The guys in the UFC are tremendously talented fighters who pretty much train as their job, and many people forget that.

Their job is too train for fighting, and I think many people now days think that is the way all martial artists should be. People think that you have to be able to fight for 3 or 5 5 minute rounds to be an effective Martial artist. I mean conditioning is importent, but if a self defense situation lasts more then 20 seconds, wither with the attacker out, you out, or you getting away, something is seriously wrong.

Even if the guy has  agun and wants your money or car, 20 seconds is more then enough time to wave to him as he drives off.

Many people do not realize that the guys in the cage are two highly trained professionals that are paid to train and fight, and if they see anything less they think it is no good or lacking.