Does an omoplata dislocate the shoulder?

Question

What if you get in a street fight with a guy, pull guard, and successfully execute an omoplata, but the guy doesn't tap because it's a street fight and there's no tapping out in a street fight? If you push hard enough, will you injure him, or is it just pain? Even if it's just pain it's still a useful way to escape the bottom position....

Answer 1

Any submission in a street fight could end up serious, when you put a dude in a sub theyre either gonna pass out or your gonna break something, but its a sure way to win when the opponent dosnt know what your doing.

Answer 2

oma plata attacks the shoulder if done properly and has no effect on the elbow.  How many times do you come out of a kimura or oma plata with problems in the elbow rather than the shoulder...what is that?

I always explain it like this....try to touch the back of your head with your hand (behind your back), a then from that tight position try to lift your hand far off your back.  It won't go because the shoulder will blow, your elbow however shouldn't feel anything.  

And to say that it takes alot of force to pull the shoulder out? What is this man?  you use your entire body weight and leg muscles to finish the sumbmission, the amount of torque is probably 10 to 20 times what it takes to injure the shoulder.

Sadly though in a street fight with out a really really good understanding of the oma plata setup and finish, your opponent will just pull out....besides if you can land and oma plata you could certainly land an armlock...and don't plan moves...when he gives his arm, take the armlock, when he pulls out move to the triangle, if he resists that then use oma plata

Answer 3

Just don't pull guard when you are fighting. Even if it is a sanctioned fight, don't pull guard! If someone is fighting with you on the streets, he will step on your face. Or knee you in the nuts. If you can lock in an omoplata you can seriously mess someone up. Stand up and fight, learn to sprawl, ground fighting looks is like two men making love. Throw your bone bullets.

Answer 4

"pull guard" in a streetfight.....

BWAHAHAHAHAH!!! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

Is this what they teach you in JiuJitsu. I'm glad I didn't bother with it then.

Being on your back on the streets is never good. You get for face pounded/stomped on. Plus you're wide open for groin strikes.

3 people have been stupid enough to pull guard on me in the streets. 2 were in the hospital with crushed testes. The other got choked out with a good old fashioned two handed neck throttle.

"pull guard" lol....lol

Answer 5

I agree, whether the guys in the post want to believe it or not... It's very common for a fight to go to the ground and if someone takes you down or knocks you down, you better know how to defend yourself from getting your face pounded in.... which is why learning how to fight off your back is important to learn. The omoplata will definitely dislocate the shoulder and will probably tear ligaments/tendons/muscles... You don't see too many fighters finish fights in MMA with an omoplata because sweat becomes an issue// it's easy to slip out// roll out of//  of etc... but with a gi or with street clothes on against an untrained guy, I could see an omoplata coming in handy. Like you said, worst case scenario you have a top position on the guy.

Answer 6

dont streetfight..

and if you do, dont pull guard...

but if you do, yeah it may..

and dont give jiujitsu practitioners a bad name with questions like this.

edit: retroactivism, see the last line of my answer, giving us a bad name?

keep up your winning record on street fights though buddy, after all that will determine your success in life and whether or not your a good person...

if i ever brag about a street fight somebody shoot me...

and why the h**l is it a street fight anyway??? what if its on the grass? or in a house? why does everyone wanna sound so friggin tough when talking about "streetfights" they were in? isnt it just a fight?

a fight is a fight, self defense is self defense, a street fight is a post 80's slang phrase to intimidate people into thinking your tougher than you are...

Answer 7

If you continue the move where it looks like a kimura, then yes, it will lead to pain and injury.

Answer 8

Short answer: It dislocates the elbow first.

Longer answer: There should be no reason in h**l to pull guard in a fight, much less go for an omoplata..  also news flash, if the guys is big enough and powerful enough to put you on your back, chances are he is going to be strong enough to keep you from completing an omoplata.. (which isn't that great of a submission).

If they guy doesn't tap, and you keep forcing it, you will pop the elbow joint first (smaller joint, less range of motion. Because of the nature of the omoplata it is hard to pop a guys shoulder with it, it takes a great deal more pressure and you are in a bad position to use a lot of leverage, it does hurt and it does put pressure on the shoulder, but it takes A LOT of cranking to actually pop a guy's shoulder with a any shoulder lock, vs. very little cranking to pop an elbow.

If you just bend your leg slightly it takes very little effort to pop the elbow with it, and you will have a higher chance of success.

Also there are about 100 sweeps that are much more successful at escaping from the bottom position... and a ton of much better higher percentage submissions.

But long story short, you can pop a shoulder with it, it just takes a ton of effort...you have a better chance taking the elbow.

Darb D: Thanks for the thumbs down... actually yes, a Kimura when done properly works on the elbow... Umm.. you might have forgetten, but what part of Helio was broken by Kimura hence the name of the lock? Was it a dislocated shoulder? Umm... no, it was the elbow. Umm what joint was it Sakuraba broke on Renzo? The shoulder? Nope.. elbow.

The reason why it is hard to pop the shoulder, with an omoplata is because anyone with a remotely decent sense of flexibility is going to make it tough, think about your position when you finish.. opponent is on the mat, being forced down shoulder to the ground, you are leaning forward legs intertwined. What is pulling you further forward? You essentially have to lean in, find some want to lean further and further forward, while your legs remained intertwined in the arm. You d**n near have to bring your own chest and hips to the ground to pop a shoulder.

HOWEVER, if you bend your leg (the one whose foot is locked in behind a knee, and is actually applying the lock) slightly, it becomes an elbow lock, you pull then foot in towards you slight, and you place the fulcrum just above the elbow, near the tricep with the forearm on your thigh... you lean forward slightly, you get a FAST tap, and a little further lean and you pop the elbow.

If you notice, the guys who have been tapped from an Omoplata, tapped from the elbow lock variety as opposed to the shoulder.

Or tell you what, have someone put you in a Omoplata who knows what they are doing.. I promise it won't be your shoulder you are tapping out from, but your elbow. I have won a NAGA match, and two Judo matches with an Omoplata, but by using the quick tap from the elbow. (It has to be an elbow lock in Judo, as Shoulder locks are illegal).

Of course, point to me ONE documented person who has gotten their shoulder dislocated from an Omoplata.

I can already show you how you are wrong on the Kimura, but due to pretty much NO ONE submitting someone with an Omoplata at a high level competetion (aside from Matt Serra schooling Gomi in the ADCC trials) chances are you won't even find a win via Omoplata, much less someone getting their shoulder popped. But take a look at the video of Matt Serra vs. Gomi at ADCC. You'll notice he pulls his leg in tight and uses the elbow lock from it.. (quicker tap).

But hey maybe I don't know what I am talking about...

Answer 9

It can cause muscle, tendon or ligament damage & could cause dislocations or breaks in the bones yes.