Does anybody have an opinion about Russell Sands or Turtle Trading?

Question

What about these websites?

http://www.sandsturtlefx.com/index4.html

http://www.sandsturtlefutures.com/index2.html

Answer 1

I agree with the previous poster...read Curtis Faith's book "Way of the Turtle" to get a handle on the system.  I will say though that if you pay up for the original course that Russell has taught, you will still get quite a bit of information.  "Way of the Turtle" does not discuss some of the other discretionary inputs that went into trading the Turtle System.

In my opinion however, due to the very high volatility in many of the futures markets currently (Crude Oil, Gold, grain markets), a break out system is very difficult to trade unless you have a sizable account, AND that account represents your high risk capital.  

I have personally done quite a bit of backtesting of the Turtle system, and have developed my own trend following models.  However, they all still have significant volatility, and high drawdowns.

It is my opinion that you are much better off trading stocks.  At any given time, there is a handful of stocks that are enjoying significant trends, unlike the commodity markets.  Prior to the last year or so, some of the most successful trend following traders, John Henry and Dunn Capital Management, experienced substantial drawdowns.  Both have experienced a significant drop in assets under management.  That should tell you how difficult trend following in the futures markets has become.

Scott Cole

www.kungfutrader.com

www.bestdaytradingstocks.com

Answer 2

Yes, Russell Sands was one of the Richard Dennis "turtles".  That part is true.

His site says "Russell Sands is one of only two original Turtles now free to teach the Turtle Trader methods."  This is a bit oversold, in my opinion.  The turtle methods are not a secret or terribly complex.  Another of the turtles, Curtis Faith has written a book called "Way of the Turtle".  Michael Covel has interviewed many former turtles and written a book called "The Complete Turtle Trader".  These are "must reads" for anyone who wants to understand active trading.

For that matter, read Covel;s book, "Trend Following".  

The turtle methods actually were a simple trend following system entering on breakouts.  I, myself, make a living as a trader using this approach, as do many others.  The details about time frame an exact signals vary from trader to trader depending on market and personal comfort level, but the philosophy is the same.

People do make money, sometimes with managed accounts.  One thing about a trend following approach is that you can make huge amounts when a market is trending and lose quite a bit when the market is in a trading range, so the results can bounce around.  That is why money management is so important.  The reason for the success of the turtles was that Dennis and Eckart taught them a solid money management system.

If you are not comfortable with the trems "trend" "rend following" "breakout" and "money management", you need to be before you make any decisions.  Read the books I've mentioned.  The cost is low compared to the losses you will experience if tyou get into a bad situation.  If you are thinking about putting the $6000 inimum into Sand's forex program, you can not afford to buy some books for less than $100.

Feel free to email me with specific questions.

Answer 3

Both the other posts have some useful information. After reading the links, I have concluded that these are nothing more about speculative marketing to sell an investment black box program.

Black box programs are hyped all over the net, late night TV and in print. The theory is if one just follows the program, they should make huge returns, because it was done ONCE! - or are HYPOTHETICAL representations of the past.

Even this Turtle character acknowledges his profits are hypothetical (bottom paragraphs on website).

Any knowledgeable trader or investor should be easily able to differentiate between hype, greed marketing, and sound investment practices.

I have listened to, attended, read a countless number of these kinds of hyped programs boasting unrealistic expectations for profits, over the last 20+ years.

I remember when Wade Cook was the touted as hottest thing since sliced bread in the 1990’s, where is expensive seminars and programs we touted everywhere.  He made a fortune (upwards of $200M) but not from trading stocks, from selling his programs.

He did this at a time when coincidently, was one of the biggest Bull Markets in history. I used to tell people in the mid and late 90’s, “Try not to confuse Genius with a Bull Market.”

Cook went BK, was sued, and is now serving time in prison with his wife (in separate prisons).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wade_Cook



Quoting Oliver Stone’s Wall Street (1987), “Quick buck artists come and go.”

If you want to see if a trading program has any validity this is what you do.

Go to their seminar and publically ask for a copy of their tax returns showing all the money they supposedly made off doing their own investing/trading. In the 20+ years when I have asked this question, NO ONE has offered to show they personally ever made a dime.

And you want to spend how much for what with no proof?

Answer 4

What the Web sites don't tell you is that there's a licensing fee of $7,000 the first year, which is pretty stiff if you make a minimal investment.  I've done some minimal due diligence and note that Russell Sands does not have a BBB record.  His Web sites promote spectacular results without any detail except that he follows the so-called Turtle method.  I'd be cautious.