Does anyone else find this contradictory?

Question

Does anyone else find that anti-feminists will often blame feminism for problems that feminists are largely trying to counter and that were the result of sexism to begin with?

The example I seem to hear most often is that because of feminism, men are unable to express themselves freely and are under pressure to conform to gender roles of being tough, or alternatively that what is, for those who agree with biological determinism, naturally male behaviour is becoming socially unacceptable.

Last time I checked feminism was trying to deconstruct pre-determined gender roles and biological determinism and allow for diversity and individual differences. If this is so, why aren't these anti-feminists on board?

I'd like to hear what other people think.

Answer 1

All I know is I love being a woman and doing womanly things; regarding this I don't like people telling me otherwise.  I see our roles as two separate roles that naturally blend of their own accord; they do not need to be forced and or constructed.

Answer 2

Because of feminism and the anti-male laws that feminists fought for, it has become very difficult for men to get the help that they need when they're victim of domestic violence.

""Last time I checked feminism was trying to deconstruct pre-determined gender roles and biological determinism and allow for diversity and individual differences.""

Feminists are trying to "deconstruct pre-determined gender roles and biological determinism" so that it'll benefits women and women only.

Answer 3

As soon as I see the word 'deconstruct' I think "Jacques Derrida/claptrap".

Nevertheless you are right that a number of anti-fems are playing catch-up in terms of what it means to be a man or a woman in our current societies.

As an aside, biological determinism (which I suspect you are writing pejoratively) affects women as much as it affects men, and it DOES affect us. All we do when we theorize about gender/social roles and all the rest of it, is try and make sense of ourselves as biological animals who are self-aware.

I don't see this as ticking a box which reads:'this is the gene for homosexuality', or whatever it might be, this is just the crude caricature. Anyone who thinks they will understand people entirely by means of Baudrillard and his 'linear social spaces' will be disappointed (or just produce worthless scholarship).

The trollish ant-fems either oppose feminism's past achievements because they are adolescent-minded, or because they are trying to find out why feminism doesn't always tally with its claims, and there are incongruences between the claims and the practice.

Answer 4

Some of them are "on board" and would like to see harmful stereotypes be a thing of the past.

Some would like to see it become more socially acceptable to be stay at home dads and single fathers.

Some would like to see men who are victims of DV get the help and support they need without being made to feel like they are perpetrators rather than victims.

Guys don't like the word "victim", however.  Some would rather suffer silently than speak up or speak out because they don't want to be labeled as victims...because to them, the word "victim" is equated with "weakness."

They are somewhat conflicted because they want acknowledgment and help with their issues, but to ask for that help is to be, in their minds, "weak."

Society won't let men be human.  

They're supposed to be impermeable, strong, independent, protective...super-heroes...they have to be the best.  

But to de-construct this about men would make them feel vulnerable.  Feminists/women can't (and shouldn't) try to do this.  If men want this, they need to change this about themselves.  Any pressure from women/feminists would create a rebellion if it created anything.  Men are in control of their own destinies.  We have to let them decide how to proceed.

Answer 5

i totally agree w/ you

Answer 6

I don't know many feminists or anti-feminists. The majority of the people I interact with are happy to be the gender they are, and they accept the strengths, weaknesses, and double standards that come with being either a man or a woman.

Throughout history many women's movements have taken place, only to die down, when the majority of the women realized that they really didn't want to work at the same jobs as men did for the same number of hours. They wanted to marry a man who would be the primary or sole bread winner, so that they could stay home and raise children. Women are not weaker than men, you're just different. I think feminism came about because so many men were not up to the challenge of respecting women's differences, which in turn lead to women being in economically disadvantageous positions. Therefore, they felt the need to fight for equality, much of which they would later care so little about.

Answer 7

LOL! "I seem to hear most often is that because of feminism, men are unable to express themselves freely and are under pressure to conform to gender roles of being tough".

Yeah, we see guys here complain about this constantly - LOL!

Answer 8

"Last time I checked feminism was trying to deconstruct pre-determined gender roles and biological determinism and allow for diversity and individual differences. If this is so, why aren't these anti-feminists on board?"

Yes, the first two waves of Feminism was about that. The third wave and the radical extremists born from this wave are the ones responsible for your question.

It's the radical extremists who promote the superiority of women over men, which is going against what feminism was/is truly about: gender equality.

Answer 9

These two subjects don't contradict at all.

Natural male behavior is not being over-emotional and overreacting to little things like women do.

So pretending that men are being forced to be manly is just a smoke and mirror tactic to feminize men.

Answer 10

I agree with you partly on this.  The old gender roles were established long before feminism came around.  Blaming feminism for them is kind of ridiculous.

However, I haven't seen too many feminists wanting to break gender roles for men either.  Feminists are only concerned with breaking gender roles for women (generally speaking).  Otherwise, they wouldn't be so afraid of changing that name from feminism.

So where are all these feminists protesting on behalf of men?  There are very few of them.  The only thing I can really think of is a website that I saw where feminists were raising money to help military fathers (I can't remember the website now).  I'm sure there's a few others out there, but you can't tell me it's very many.  Most feminists focus on women's issues, and often solely on women's issues.  Otherwise, like I said above, they wouldn't be calle FEMinists.

Answer 11

Very good question. Because I was under the same impression myself. I didn't know that ALL feminist where fighting against this until I came here to the GWS forum (sarcastically speaking).

What you have to realize is that most of the posting against feminist and feminism is just personal rants. They're men and women who're having personal struggles in their lives that are just looking for someone and something to blame for their own personal hardships.

May it be someone struggling with their own gender identity (being g*y or straight), someone who has a problem standing up for themselves in a failed relationship/marriage, or someone who has problems speaking with or talking to people of the opposite s*x. It's always something deeper with these people that causes them to focus all of their negative energy towards one main target. Which in most cases it here happens to be feminist.

This forum is just an outlet for people to post personal grievances against the either the opposing, or ones own s*x. Placing blame for their experience on people they've never even met. You noticed how they always generalize all feminist as being or believing the same thing, but when you ask them when was the last time they sat down and talked with a feminist, they can never give you an answer? That's funny to me, because how do you know all feminist or all women feel a certain way, if you haven't spoken to each and every feminist (or woman for that matter).

Answer 12

Being feminist is to carry with a stigma, based on prejudiced ideas of what feminism is. Many people think feminism is a battle of sexes, which as you have refered is a hughe mistake, and some other persons think feminism is about women who wants to be men.

Too much ignorance in this world.

Answer 13

I think all stereotypes need to be deconstructed for the good of societies productiveness.

The only men who are completely opposes to equality between the genders, are the insecure people who feel threatened by by either being out done by the opposites gender, and a lot of women who are opposed to it seem to hold a sense of jealousy due to lack of confidence.

Another words, some people may merely be opposed to it due to certain belief reasons, and only opposed to it on certain issues, while others blow it out of proportion due to several forms of insecurity.

Answer 14

Lol. It must be frustrating for you to hear ALL the men here complaining that they couldn't express their opinion because of your intervention !

"Last time I checked feminism was trying to deconstruct pre-determined gender roles and biological determinism and allow for diversity and individual differences." - "gender roles and biological determinism" - I agree with some reservations. Regarding "diversity and individual differences" - you can speak about that AFTER those anti-men laws are done with, and when femminists can speak good about SAHMs.

Answer to your question - No, it doesn't seem contradictory. If non-feminists point out the flaws/anti-men laws that femminism perpetrates, it doesnt mean they are against equality.

Answer 15

I was under the impression that feminists were indifferent towards men and that they just wanted women to be able to break out of their shells....otherwise they would have a different title.

Answer 16

I like how you admit feminism is about "trying to deconstruct pre-determined gender roles and biological determinism and allow for diversity and individual differences" - not equality. Absolutely right!

As for your question - "Does anyone else find that anti-feminists will often blame feminism for problems that feminists are largely trying to counter..."

Nope.

Answer 17

Thank you food4!!! No need to add my comments...your question and further explanation are sound and am so relieved to hear them! Here!Here!

Answer 18

Yes it does sound pretty contradictory, but if you think about A LOT of things in our society, like A LOT of things. It's pretty much all contradictory aswell. People are just too stubborn to see that they're being like that, couldn't stop this kind of thing even if everyone tried.

Answer 19

Yes, of course.

I asked several questions a couple of months ago about domestic violence towards men possibly being seen as less serious by police officers due to gender stereotypes. Several anti feminists wouldn't hear of this, refused to participate in constructive dialogue and insisted that it was purely the fault of feminists.

Sometimes it is easier to blame than to find a constructive solution.

Answer 20

I definately agree. In fact a lot of anti-feminists don't seem to know what it is they are arguing against at all.

Answer 21

Where do anti-feminist complaint about that?  Point it out specifically please..

Answer 22

Great question.

The answer - logic has nothing to do with hatred, and that's pretty much all anti-feminism is.  I mean, it hasn't even got its own name or issues, it's basically just opposed to the existance of feminism, which is a pretty pants reason for any social movement :-)

Answer 23

Excellent point. Yes, the intention of the feminist movement was to free people from rigid role expectations.

It could be that the anti-feminists like the pre-determined roles, and as individuals are comfortable with them.

Answer 24

The end of gender roles is the feminist attempt to end their impossible ideal of being a superman woman. They can't admit their weakness, so they timid away to a neutral explanation for their actions.

You can't deconstruct biology. This is just nonsense that treats humans like machines that can be programmed to whatever ideology is in. There are differences between the sexes. These differences create different characteristics.

Answer 25

"Men are unable to express themselves freely and are under pressure to conform to gender roles". Can you please introduce me to you imaginary male friends. I have never heard a man express that in my life.