Does using a hybrid actually save more money or do you lose money from it?

Question

Does using a hybrid actually save more money or do you lose money from it?

Answer 1

The break-even can be from 3 to 7 yrs, depending on the make/model.  After that point, you're saving money from then on.

Their *environmental* break-even is also several years.  They are so complex that they require a lot of energy to manufacture.

I'm hoping Tesla Motors' plans for an affordable all-electric sedan come true. Their roadster is awesome, but currently pricey.  It makes the Prius look like a stinky gas-hog.

Answer 2

go to:

http://www.realtechnews.com/posts/1901

Answer 3

Stop caring about the money! It throws less CO2. Stop polluting nature!

Answer 4

the break even point is upside down. so if you buy one it is only to be green

Answer 5

many people dont realize it but the battery's are worst for the environment then the gas and you would have to own the car for a very long time compared to lets say a subaru legacy you would have to own a prius for 7 years if you drive 15,000 miles a year!!!! and then come the cost if you have to replace the battery's they got what 6, 8, or more batterys yeah i will stick to my gas guzzling truck thanks at least i would live after getting in an accident with a hummer

Answer 6

You save more but produce even more smug.

Answer 7

They're nothing but a gimmick for celebrities' image.

The mpg's acutally worse than a diesel, and the batteries not only end up at landfills, they're $5000 each, and have to be changed after 5 years. So, just as you begin to 'break even' you have to change the batteries, and here goes another $5000 on a 5yo car. Yeah, that's smart...

Answer 8

Hi,

lots of misconceptions, lots of misinformation...

Short answer, it depends.

If you only drive 10-15 miles or minutes a day, then you will not get the full environmental or mileage benefits from any vehicle, hybrid or not.

Driving that short a distance or time will give you very poor mileage and produce high levels of emissions and particulates, because an internal combustion engine (ICE) works very poorly when they are cold. It doesn't matter if the ICE is run on gas or diesel or who manufactures it, cold ICE's are very inefficient, period.

Now, if you drive 20-30 miles or 20-30 minutes each way on your commute, then you are going to see the benefits of a hybrid.

Using a Prius, because of the large number of them and the fact that they are the most advanced hybrid available:

It costs a little less than .11 per mile to maintain a Prius, including gas at $3.50 a gallon. Full details and every maintenance point are broken down below.

And every vehicle, hybrid or not, must be driven and maintained properly to get the best mileage. I guarantee that no average driver gets the EPA sticker mpg, people just don't drive and maintain their vehicles well enough, on average. If there's a doubt about that, do you check your tire pressure at least once a week, let alone the once that it gets checked when you bring it in for an oil change every three months?

For each one pound of tire pressure lost on all four tires, figure 1/2 to 1 mpg lost, no kidding.

There is nothing changed or maintained as far as the electric portions of the hybrid system are concerned, it's self-regulating and self-adjusting.

There has yet to be a person who has paid for a nickel metal hydride (NiMH) hybrid to be replaced due to defects or failure.

There have been NiMH replaced due to accidents or owner abuse or attempted modification (one guy drilled a s***w into his NiMH stack trying to install a big sub-woofer in the back).

Anything else you've seen or heard is a myth. Common sense says if these things were failing, it would be all over the news. The Prius have been in the US since 2000, eight, almost nine, years, and in Japan for the last ten, almost eleven, years.

Full answer (and it's a lot, so stay with me)...

The cost of operation of a Prius is a little less than .11 cents per mile for each 100,000 miles of operation. I don't add in insurance, bank interest, or the cost of the vehicle itself, because all of those can vary based on each owner's situation. Add them to the .11 cents per mile amount.

A Prius will maintain 51-53 average if driven properly.

This means doubling your usual stopping distance and taking your foot off the accelerator at that double distance to shut down the ICE sooner when coming to a stop and then pressing the brake at your normal stopping distance gently to the stop.

Accelerate like there is a egg under the accelerator pedal and you're trying to roll the egg out, not make omelets. In other words, driving defensively and learning to get the most out of the hybrid drivetrain.

As far as the cost to operate a Prius over 100,000 miles:

- There is no steering belt or steering pump, the system is electronic and uses electric motors. There is no belt to wear and no pump to lose fluid out of (ever hear a car squeal when it goes around a corner? that's the belt or pump going bad) No cost there.

- There is no accelerator cable or cable linkage, once again, it is electronic. So there is no loss of acceleration over time from cable stretch and wear like on a standard vehicle. No cost there.

- The brake pads should never need to be replaced, they are hardly used due to the regenerative braking system. Look up pictures on the net of Prius with no appreciable wear on the brake pads. One great example is an owner who thought to take pictures of his Prius' brake pads at 8,000 miles and then again at 105,000 miles. The pads were measured with calipers and there was no appreciable wear after 97,000 miles. No cost there.

- As I said, you never touch the nickel metal hydride (NiMH) battery or the hybrid system, it is self-regulating. No cost there.

- The gas engine is not tuned up for 100,000 miles. At even 15,000 miles per year, that's about seven years. And then...

- four spark plugs run $12.00 each, four is $48.00 (the wires aren't replaced and there are no distributors because each cylinder has a direct injection module and they are not replaced)

- coolant is $15.50 a gallon and you need two gallons, or $31.00 (if you live in an extremely hot or cold climate, you might need to change the coolant 2X in 100,000 miles so figure $62.00 there)

- air filters are $18.00 for the engine and $25.00 for the cabin and are replaced every 15,000 miles. So over 100,000 miles, we'll go high and say 7 sets of air filters at $301.00.

- at 100,000 miles, inspect the wiring, change the oil (might as well, since you're there) lube, inspect and flush the brake lines, flush the coolant if necessary. It runs about $225.00, which includes parts.

- the sealed, continuously variable transmission fluid is not changed until 90,000 miles, about $140.00

- The OEM (Original Equipment from the Manufacturer) Goodyear Integrity's are about $113.00 each, installed. The originals are low-rolling resistance, specialty tires, just like a truck or sports car. They will last about 35,000 or so. Three sets of 4 OEM tires- over 105,000 miles- will run $1356.00 installed (3 sets of 4 at $113.00 each = $1356.00).

- Oil and filter changes every 3000 miles and tire rotations every 6000 miles, just like any other vehicle. Oil changes are about $26.00 and tire rotations are about $18.00, or about $884.00 for oil changes and $306.00 for rotations over 100,000 miles

So, over 100,000 miles, for regular service, a Prius should run about $3322.00, rounded to $3400.00, or about .034 cents per mile.

All of my service and parts amounts come from a local Toyota dealership (not the corner cheapy lube), and do not figure in any kind of promotions, coupons, or discounts. I called on 6/12/07.

We'll go high and say gas in a Prius at $3.50 a gallon will run about $7,000 over 100,000 miles, or about .07 cents per mile (100,000 miles / 50 mpg (I get 51.7 mpg currently as an average, city and highway, auto temp w/air and stereo on) = 2000 gallons of gas X $3.50 a gallon = $7,000).

So a Prius will run about $11000 ($3400 + $7000), or .11 cents per mile, to operate over 100,000 miles.

I used 100,000 miles because it is a easy, round number, and most people don't keep their vehicles more than 6 or 7 years.

Any vehicle you are considering should be put to this kind of scrutiny. A vehicle is a major investment and it will cost you money to run properly. Please print this info out and use it to compare any vehicles by calling your local dealership and asking the parts and service departments what is involved in maintenance over 100,000 miles.

As far as the energy and materials for the NiMH batteries go:

Our federal government has tested NiMH batteries from the Prius and discovered they still maintain 90% of their capacity after 100,000 miles. Look up the testing at the DOE website.

BTW, the price for a new NiMH battery for either generation of the Prius is $2985.13, not the $5-10,000.00 that people like to throw around the internet. Call your local Toyota dealer and ask for the parts department.

And the current record is over 360,000 miles on a Prius using the original NiMH battery and hybrid system. Many Prius are used as taxis and also by the State of New York and Colorado as state municipal vehicles racking up 100,000-200,000 miles without issue on a regular basis. Those are not typos, anything else you may have seen is an urban myth.

Speaking for Toyota, there is an 800 number on each NiMH hybrid battery, and that number allows a person to turn in that battery for a $200.00 bounty. That's assuming a NiMH even gets out of the hands of an auto salvage company who will sell it to the top bidder. Who's going to throw something like that into a dump?

The entire battery, just like almost every bit of those vehicles, is completely recyclable.

The Hybrid Synergy Drive unit that Toyota developed is designed to keep the NiMH battery in a mid-peak charge range, trying not to top-charge it or, of course, completely discharge it.

That enables a NiMH to last fairly indefinitely. Obviously, there will be some breakdown eventually, but one of the great things about the Prius system, for example, is the NiMH battery is composed of 36 individual cells. If one cell goes bad, it can be replaced and the remainder stay. That is what's happened when Toyota has torture tested the Prius in Alaska and Death Valley.

Working with Toyota, I know about their commitments to recycling and the environment (Toyota's web site lists environmental reports dating back many years).

As far as the supposed "environmental impact" of the NiMH batteries in the Toyota and Lexus hybrids...

The plant in Sudbury where Toyota buys approximately 1.5% of the plant's annual nickel output can be seen using this Google maps address:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&la...

Sudbury, Ontario is called the mining capital of the world for good reason. The Sudbury plant has been in continuous operation since the rock was blasted to make way for the Canadian Pacific Railway in 1883.

That means that nickel has been mined there for the last 125 years. The Prius has been on the road since 1998. What about all the environmental damage done for the 115 years before the Prius ever came along?

So, there are some of the techie details, but the bottom line is it really depends on your driving situation, as I said in the beginning.

Answer 9

It all depends on your driving habits.   If you keep it for at least 5 years then most likely you'll save money.

Also, you won't save as much in city driving as you will in highway driving.  So if you only drive in an inner city, it's probably not worth it.