Driving electric cars save gas money, but isn't the saving reduced when we charge thebatteries?

Question

It cost to run electrical appliances in your home.The bigger the appliance the more the current to operate.Carging a 12 battery car is not the same as charging a cell phone. Then it follows that the price of electricity should increase quite a bit.

Answer 1

You are correct.  It does cost energy and money to recharge an electric vehicle.  However, as a comparison of overall efficiency, a small gasoline car might obtain 40 mpg, while a 2-seat EV would get 100 - 120 mpg equivalent.  At $4 per gallon, this is 10¢ per mile for gas, versus 3.3¢ to 4¢ per mile for electric.



Now, the widespread use of EVs would require a substantially beefier electric grid.  In a typical daily commute, an EV would use about 80 kW·hrs.  If there were 50 million EVs in the US, it would increase electric demand from 3,600 billion kW·hrs to 4,600 billions kW·hrs per year.  Roughly a 30% increase in total electric demand (an 80% increase in residential demand).  

Even if charged during off-peak hours, a substantial amount of on-demand generating capacity would need to be in use continuously.  The current "maximum" US output is only 8,600 billion kW·hrs per year at the generator.  This includes all of the on-demand capacity running continuously, has all facilities running at maximum, and allows for no generator down-time.  The maximum main-line capacity is only 5,400 billion kW·hrs per year, assuming no down time.  After including grid efficiencies, only a maximum of about 3,700 billion kW·hrs is available from main-line generators (plus another potential 2,200 from the on-demand sources).

This situation would inevitably require the construction of 25% more main-line capacity, which is something that will be rather difficult to do, as many environmentalist groups in the US have already successfully blocked the construction of numerous new power generation facilities.  Assuming the generation facilities are constructed, power costs will remain approximately the same.  If they are not constructed... you might want to think about that bicycle.

Also, while most home wiring will handle the extra load, the mid-grid wiring between the substations and neighborhoods may become overloaded and need reinforcement.  Otherwise, we might have frequent repeats of the massive blackouts in 1965 and 2003.

As for hoarding electricity during off-peak hours and selling it back during peak hours.... it won't happen for three simple reasons.  One, there is a reason it is called "on-demand" power generation.  They turn the generators on to handle the peak, and off during the lulls.  Simply put, the power company never makes more or less electricity than is used.  Two, it is rather inefficient and would ultimately consume more power.  It won't be allowed legally for environmental reasons.  Three, the electric grid is a complex system.  Individuals are not allowed to muck around with it.

Answer 2

electric cars will actually improve the efficiency of the grid,

http://www.acpropulsion.com/technology/v...

so the utility companies don't need to invest in bigger grid systems or new power stations.

ie a car charged off-peak with a range of 200 miles (like the Tesla http://www.teslamotors.com) that only does a typical 20mile commute, has a lot of spare capacity to sell back to the grid at peak periods.

plus all the amount of power saved on lighting petrol stations and refineries (they are lit up like small cities), pumping systems etc.

Answer 3

The one EV car I currently have (have 2 vehicles that run on hydrogen also) I converted from a vw bug and is free to charge. As I live completely off the grid all my electricity comes from solar panels and 2 wind generators, which I also built.

However I did charge up at Costco in Carlsbad California (I actually only drove up there to fill up) if I remember right it was around $2.00

Not sure if you’re interesting in doing it yourself, but I’d be willing to walk you step by step threw the conversion. I've converted 3 of my own cars (a datsun truck, ford ban, and a vw bug) and a few for neighbors. I've also converted cars to run on hydrogen, ethanol and biodiesel, by far EV is the easiest.

If you’re interested here’s what it would entitle…

- The engine compartment is first cleaned out of any gasoline components.

- Electric components are then installed in exchange.

- A battery bank is built and incorporated.

- Existing starter and driving systems are connected.

- Turn the key, step on the gas pedal sending more energy to the electric motor, & thus more power to the drive system, which in return creates more speed, more acceleration.

- The system has normal automotive top speeds and acceleration, typical to the vehicle your modifying. If your top speed was 85 mph and your acceleration was 1 mile per min, then this will be what your left with after the conversion.

The methods are extremely simple, making the process possible for anyone, everyone, ANYWHERE.

Typical tools, hardware & supplies are used, making access to parts available for all.

Electric Conversions can be easily accomplished in ANY model vehicle, even tractors, Generators, types of machinery, etc.

Project lengths range from 1 day to 1 month.

If you’re interested I wrote a guide on it which is available at www agua-luna com

My last EV conversion ran me about $1400. Everything is available online. I have a how to do it yourself guide available at www agua-luna com that will walk you step by step through the process. If you have ANY questions feel free to contact me through the site. Here’s a list of what you'd need...

Advanced DC Motor

The motor is an 8" Advanced DC series-wound motor. It weighs 107 pounds and is rated at 68 peak horsepower. These motors are available in several sizes.



Adaptor plate

The adaptor plate mates the motor to the transmission. It is constructed of 1/2 inch aluminum and is pre-drilled with bolt hole patterns for both the motor and transmission. An aluminum spacer is also used for proper spacing between the shafts of the transmission and motor. Adaptor plates are available for many cars.

DC Motor Controller

The controller regulates current going to the motor. It is a solid-state device that uses a pulse width modulator (PWM) that sends short bursts of current to the motor at a rate of 15 kHz. Controllers are available from both Curtis and DCP.

Potbox (Potentiometer)

The potbox is a 5K ohm throttle between the controller and the accelerator, similar to the way a sewing machine pedal works. The potbox's lever arm is attached to the existing accelerator cable.

Main Contactor

An electric relay that serves the same purpose as the ignition switch in a gas car. When the key is turned to the start position, the contactor closes the circuit to allow current to flow to the controller.

Circuit Breaker

A safety device that shuts down power for servicing or during an emergency. The circuit breaker is installed under the hood and can be switched both off and on from the drivers seat with an extension or cable.



Main Fuse

The main fuse protect the system from high voltage spikes. A fuse should be installed at each battery box or group of batteries.



Shunt

A shunt is placed in series within the wiring as a means to connect meters. Shunts are available in different sizes for both high and low power configurations.

  

Charger interlock

A relay that keeps the circuit open so nobody will inadvertantly drive off with the charge cord plugged into the car.



DC/DC Converter

The DC/DC converter is similar in function to a gas car's alternator. It charges the 12 volt accessory battery by chopping voltage from the main battery pack down to 13.5 volts.

If you interested I offer several DIY alternative guides to walk you step by step threw EV conversion process at agua-luna com or

www agua-luna com

Hope this helped, feel free to contact me personally if you have any questions if you’d like assistance in making your first self sufficient steps, I’m willing to walk you step by step threw the process. I’ve written several how-to DIY guides available at  www agua-luna com on the subject. I also offer online and on-site workshops, seminars and internships to help others help the environment.

Dan Martin

Alterative Energy / Sustainable Consultant, Living 100% on Alternative & Author of How One Simple Yet Incredibly Powerful Resource Is Transforming The Lives of Regular People From All Over The World... Instantly Elevating Their Income & Lowering Their Debt, While Saving The Environment by Using FREE ENERGY... All With Just One Click of A Mouse...For more info Visit:  

www AGUA-LUNA com

Stop Global Warming!!!

Answer 4

Many of the electric cars have optional solar panels either built into them or added on so they can recharge while parked.

Charging at night is the only downside where you might have to plug it in, but the car makers are also looking into that with quick change battery packs you could lease.

Answer 5

Seems like you are writing that if everyone used electric cars, demand would increase, and a non-flexible supply curve would make prices increase.  

New power plants (coal, wind) can be built in 3-5 years or less.  If the increase in electricity use is slower than that, it is just a question of car drivers paying for coal (or wind) instead of oil.

Answer 6

Electric cars cost 2-3 cents per mile to recharge.

http://gas2.org/2008/05/27/an-electric-c...

A gas car that gets 32 mpg costs 12.5 cents per mile to refuel if gas costs $4/gallon.

So if you drive 10,000 miles per year, an electric car will save you $1,000 per year on fuel.