E-85 in non flex - fuel cars ?

Question

What is the highest Ethonol mix that I can run in a '93 Honda Civic ?

What would happen if I did try and run E-85 ?

What kind of damage would occur ?

Answer 1

I wouldn't try it - the production of a new car would most likely increase CO2 emissions more than would running your car with regular gas.  Normal gas is probably the only thing you can run with in your current engine.

Furthermore, with 38mpg, you will probably be putting out less pollution than would a newer car with a lower mileage running E85

Answer 2

It would run terribly.  Don't do it.   E85 has about 15% less burn energy than gasoline, so you'd be forcing the engine to run 15% lean.  The closed-loop electronic engine controls would detect this and try to richen up the mix to compensate, but when they saw it this far beyond norms, they'd blow a "check engine" light and might even go into open-loop "limp home" mode.

Ask a question on the maintenance category about what would happen if you deliberately ran an engine lean.

I would expect ridiculous NOx emissions, possibly damaging your catalytic converter, and also possibly severe dieseling (spark knock) potentially blowing head gaskets.

Answer 3

Well, DarkWolf is right on track about the hoses and rubber parts. It would typically also require new gaskets that aren't affected by alcohol and new fuel injectors to compensate for the higher fuel delivery requirements with E85.

Making a conversion kit (legally) available, including all the above mentioned parts and a reprogrammed computer would  be very expensive. The manufacturer (or third party aftermarket company) would have to re-test the car's emissions and then re-certify it with the government. Some companies used to do this for CNG (compressed natural gas), but I'm not sure if they still do, and I've never heard of any such kit available for E85.

Secondly, ethanol can act like a solvent, thus removing lubricants on any moving parts it comes in contact with (i.e. valves, cylinder walls, etc.).  This is not generally a problem when used in small doses like with fuel additives, but used all the time can cause premature wear. These parts are typically modified on engines certified to run on E85.

Third, E85 does not have the same energy density as gasoline, as stated previously. This will cause performance issues with the vehicle (hesitation, hard starting, etc.)

Finally, if you live in a cold climate, do not even THINK of trying this. Your car will likely just not start because ethanol evaporates and atomizes very differently than gas, so it is much harder to ignite when cold.

Answer 4

I would stick with just traditional blends that you see that are 10% ethanol.

Using E-85 will cause a decrease in milage and may cause overall damage to your engine.

On another note, corn based ethanol is not the answer.  While it releases less harmful gas when burnt, the production of it is very expensive both economically and environmentally.

Answer 5

The highest would be around 20%  E-85 will not run in your car. It requires either hi compression -15 to 17 to 1  or a precisely controled engine management system. it might start but it would not burn cleanly and would just stop running if you opened the throttle. And e85 gets very poor milage in vehicles that can run it. 25 % less miles to the gallon.

Answer 6

I was thinking of the same thing, only have gasoline stations sell different blends of ethanol and gasoline up to the 20% that cars not E85 approved can stand before they run badly.

Answer 7

There are really only two issues with respect to how E-85 will affect your car.  First,  ethanol is a solvent that will dissolve some rubbers and plastics.  Most cars can be converted to run on E-85 simple by changing out the hoses.  The second issue is that your computer may not be able to compensate for the differences between E-85 and normal gasoline.   If you have problems a dealer or performance shop should be able to recalibrate it for you.  Once you've changed out your hoses there is very little chance of any damage to your car or engine.  In fact many over the counter fuel treatments have some form of alcohol as their main ingredient.

Answer 8

Don't try above 15% ethanol. What would happen if you use e85 is that many parts in your engine would get eaten away by the ethanol. Ethanol is that corrosive.

Answer 9

I would guess 15-25%, but you need to try it a little at a time.  From wikipedia: link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_etha...

"E15 contains 15% ethanol and 85% gasoline. This is generally the greatest ratio of ethanol to gas that is recommended by auto manufacturers that sell vehicles in the United States, though it is possible that many vehicles can handle higher mixtures without trouble."

A '93 Honda might have trouble with alcohol detoriating the rubber fuel lines in concentrations above 25%, but you can always change those.  

I would suggest fill with 1 gallon of E85 and 10 gallons of 87 Octane (Actually E10) to give you about a 15% ethanol mix.  My guess is that will run just fine.

If so at your next fillup add 1.5 gallons of E85 and 10 gallons of unleaded giving you a 20% or so mix.  That too should be fine, and you might notice a "small" power boost because of the extra oxygen, giving a mild supercharging effect like nitrous oxide does.  As long as your Oxygen sensor works, your ECU should compensate by adding a little more fuel.  Your mileage might drop a mpg or so though.

Good luck.

Answer 10

U can exchange your engine for an electric one. It's not as expensive as u think. It would be quite feasable in a little Honda, more so than a lot of existing cars. I've been told it would only be an overal cost of 4-5 cents per mile. This is espescially feasable, if it's for running around town, mostly.

My next car will be electric, and so I will be one person less feeding the monster. Gas is on it's way out, because there are many people like me out there, and the number is growing. Ain't that great. And the new technology will improve, too.