EU parliament - "Agree with us, or be silenced" - Any euophiles prepared to support this?

Question

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7219580.stm

The headline shows how the main story is being burried with an anti-n**i/hitler smoke screen - diverting attention from the real point.

However the point is that a Euro MP who supports referendums on the Lisbon 'not the constitution' Treaty was making his views known within the rules of the euro parliament.

So the anti-referendum Euro MPs (the majority), voted to change their rules to silence the disenter. Simple as that. I guess this counts as 'qualified majority voting' that they are so keen on.

This may be the European way - but this kind of behaviour is what makes us see euro politicians as totalitarian scum, and why they must never have any power over us. ("rule britania, britania rules the wave, britains never never never will be slaves").

Answer 1

Well said, and we have already seen evidence of their totalitarian mindset when they ignored the results of referenda on the single currency. I am sure too, that if we have a referendum on the Constitution, (treaty) they will ignore the result of that if it doesn't give them what they want.

If you add to the above, the fact that it is also corrupt: The accounts haven't been signed off for years, we get a good idea what to expect. Communism!

Answer 2

The EU is fecking pointless!

Answer 3

I am in favour of the European Union, but think it badly needs to be democratised. So I think this latest move is certainly a step backwards for European democracy.

I would say, however, that comparing the new powers to n**i Germany was going quite a long way too far, but Mr Hannan had a perfect right to express his opinion. No matter how much I disagree with someone, I will continue to support their right to express their views.

It also has to be remembered, however, that although these new powers are somewhat of an over reaction, they have been implemented specifically to stop Eurosceptic MEPs from disrupting parliamentary business. To my mind, such disruption is also anti-democratic, and the Eurosceptic MEPs who have caused such disruption must accept their portion of the blame.

Eurosceptics in the European parliament must accept that they are a minority group, and express their views without causing disruption. In the UK parliament we would not accept such disruption of parliamentary business by a minority party or group. They would be expelled from the house and perhaps even suspended.

The only way, we can gain genuine democracy in the European Union is to strive for it from within, and to make sure power is transferred from the bureaucratic European Commission to the Parliament.

Disruptive behaviour from Eurosceptic MEPs and such overreaction from the Europhile powers that be, are not doing us (i.e. the general public) any favours, whether you believe we should be part of the EU or not.

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Edit: Elivis: The article cited in the question stated that "Hans-Gert Poettering has been given extra powers to curb disruptions after protests by Eurosceptic MEPs". The word "Protests" indicates to me that these MEPs were not "using the rules of the European parliament", but were trying to get their point across by disrupting them. Also I wasn't referring to the specific case of electronic voting, which I actually support.

(remarks on the "minority v majority" issue removed to make space)

Edit2: Elvis - thankyou for yor response also. your right that I was basing my argument specifically on the report cited in the question and I will investigate this matter further. In my orginal answer above I did say that this was a step backwards for European democracy and I support peoples right to express their views no matter how much I disagree with them. You seem to be saying the same thing. So what's the problem? As long as political debate is conducted in a civilized manner, freedom of speech is of paramount importance as far as I'm concerned.

Edit 3: OK I have now read Daniel Hannan's Blog in full (see link). After reading it, I have to say that I stand by my initial answer completely. Mr Hannan as much as admits that himself and other Eurosceptic MEPs were deliberatley using their right to explain their vote as a means of delaying pariamentary proceedings. Yes, the response from Hans-Gert Pöttering in seeking to bypass this right was rather heavy handed and unneccessary, but the Eurosceptics themselves must share the blame. If they had not used the rules to break the spirit of the rules, this setback for democracy in Europe would not have occurred.

Edit4: I'm not in favour of the way the EU operates, but neither side have done themselves any favours in this case.

Answer 4

So, you guys want to push for a British Revolution?  If Ron Paul becomes President of the U.S., I can bet you he would be willing to support you guys all the way!  BTW, if we help get you guys out of the EU, would you help us get out of the NAU?

Your Good Friends,

America

Answer 5

now why does this sound familiar. and wasn't there some Italian prick who said everyone against the EU is a terrorist. i have in the past compared this lot to Communist Russia but I'm beginning to think they are worse. as for you question I'm sure there will be some who will try to support it. or rather do what they normally do resort to name calling and accusing you of being a daily mail reader. very mature and sensible debates.

Answer 6

Its great you see thats what the EU is... but your politicians just recently signed over their immigration problems, and thus your nations sovereignty to the EU.

You Brits have a tough row ahead of you... I'm glad I'm over here.

Answer 7

Maybe Spacephantom should read up on the 'disruption' this MP was causing rather than posting blindly. We're not talking about a filibuster here, we're talking about an MEP using the rules of the European Parliament to ask that votes be made electronically as opposed to being carried on a show of hands. To say his actions are 'undemocratic' is beyond the pale. What is undemocratic is for the EU to actively ignore their own rules and procedures to silence their critics, effectively shutting down all debate and criticism of their actions.

I really do find Spacephantoms assertion that minorities should not expect to have a say in the decision making process of the EU, but that we should be in it to 'strive for it from within' quite worrying, not to mention contradictory. Perhaps he can explain how they are supposed to do that when they are denied a voice?

Perhaps while he's at it he can also explain what he means when he says "Disruptive behaviour from Eurosceptic MEPs and such overreaction from the Europhile powers that be, are not doing us (i.e. the general public) any favours". Do we need the EU to do us any favours? What's he on about? What will the EU do to us if the disruptive MEPs and the general public refuse to comply with their directives?

The one thing this does conclusively show is that for all his bluster, Gordon Brown's 'red lines' are effectively useless. Well done to PP for raising the matter for all to see, and well done to Mr Hannan for showing us what the EU is really all about.

EDIT - Thanks for the response Spacephantom. Your reply indicates you are basing your opinion on one report. I would ask that you look further into the 'disruption' these MEPs are being castigated for. They are legal, within the rules and are only aimed at ensuring the democratic process within the European Parliament is adhered to. Do you think it's acceptable that if the EU Parliament does not agree with something, they simply give themselves new powers at will to circumvent their own rules of procedure and silence their critics, because that is exactly what they've done?

As for the minority issue. I think you're being deliberately disingenuous with your response. I did not propose that a minority view should be carried if it is against the will of the majority. What I did say was that the minority view has as much right to be heard as the majority, and should be taken into consideration. The actions of the EU Parliament in ignoring their own rules have effectively silenced the minority of MEPs which is undemocratic in the extreme and shows the true nature of the EU in my humble opinion.

EDIT (2) - Thanks for at least looking SP. I hope you don't mind me saying but God help us all if people like yourself are in favour of the way the EU operates...

Answer 8

That MEP was on the radio this morning. He reminded me of Michael Howard in that he failed to answer any of the questions!

Answer 9

it just points to the very reason we need to get out. these strutting Hitlers have wrecked our country allready. enough is enough. roll on the 27th of feb....lets show these tossers that this is Britain they are trying to rule over. not some cap in hand third world dump.

Answer 10

That`s the eu....a dictatorship or the 4th Reich under another name.

Answer 11

Both the UK and the EU parliaments are run by political elites.  They only ever need us for our votes. What they do not need is any kind of in-put from the people on high flying issues which are of no concern to them and are best left to the experts.  The goons we elect.