English national anthem at rugby match on Saturday, should it be played in light of the info attached?

Question

Today the English rugby team arrived in Dublin. On Saturday they play Ireland in Croke Park in front of 82,000 fans. Croker, as it is known here, is the headquarters of the Gaelic Athletics Association which controls all Gaelic games and has never before allowed any other sport to be played on it's pitches.

The question above relates to the fact that the last time the English came to Croke Park it was in 1920 when soldiers entered the playing area during a match between Tipperary and Dublin and shot 2 players and 12 spectators including children. Do you think that the GAA would be within their rights to ask that an alternative song be played than God Save the Queen. After all all the other Nations of UK and Ireland use songs other than the anthems

Also If so which tune should England sing

Answer 1

to norfolk'ngood the ira bombed Warrington they do not and have never represented the Irish people or our government but the British soldiers that shot 14 people in Croke Park did represent the British government of the day. Having said that I have no problem with God save the Queen being played at the match as we all need to live in the present and look towards the future and not dwell on the past. The English anthem i'm led to believe is Land of hope and glory so maybe in the future they might consider palying this before games as Wales and Scotland play theirs

Answer 2

very good question and i am looking forward to the answers. I'm absolutely torn. A big part of me thinks that we should look to the future and allow the English team to sing as they would in any other stadium. However, i can totally understand why the Irish may want England to refrain from singing the national anthem. I'm english and hate the national anthem anyway, who really cares all that much about the queen anyway?

Maybe they should sing Sweet Chariots!

Its going to be a land mark game whatever happens. can't wait.

Answer 3

What's done is done.

Politics are destroying everything else in life.

Let's just have a cracking game of Rugby.

Answer 4

I don't know what the h**l is wrong with some people why on earth should they not play the National Anthem at Croke Park, it is accepted protocol at such an event, the GAA knew this when they agreed with the IRU that the games could be played, they are taking the gate, they take the game, all of it protocol included.

And as for Anthems Ireland play two Anthems before International Games, the only country to do it unless you're going to count the Haka, which is another bone of contention.

And finally, Yes 14 people were shot at an incident in Croke Park in 1920 but people who are quick to raise this issue often fail to mention the 14 people executed by the IRA the day before which was the reason the troops entered Croke Park in the first place.

For crying out loud this was in the past, the Irish question has supposedly moved on, there were deaths on both side, as there is in any uprising, freedom struggle, terrorist war, call it what you will, do you see the English victims of IRA bombings complaining because Gaelic Anthems are sung at Twickenham.

This is a game of Rugby, as someone as already said on this forum this question has been asked enough. Keep politics out of Sport, sit back and watch England take another step on the road to recovery.

Add:

That wasn't a rant it was passion, and no I wasn't trying to justify anything, I have witnessed the results of both War and Terrorism first hand and it aint pretty.

Having now read your 360 I will say this, you should be very careful about playing games with evocative subjects especially ones like this, it's antagonists with questions like this that stir the muddy waters of the past and bring old feelings of hatred to the surface. Ireland and Englands history is now hopefully in the past, where it belongs, you cannot go forward whilst continually looking backwards.

Again, it's a game of rugby, not a spring board for renkindling old hatreds.

Answer 5

dude where will it end?

no playing of the german national anthem in britain because of the blitz

no playing of the british national anthem in south africa because of the boer wars..

no playing of the american national anthem in britain because of the war of independence..

no playing of the italian national anthem in europe after the slavery and destruction of indigenous people by the roman armies in europe...

stop enough now with this question it's been asked umpteen time this week...

Answer 6

In light of the disgusting behavior of the French, at Hastings in 1066 should the French team, when visiting Twickenham, be stood in front of a squad of English archers and shot at if they dare to start singing that Froggie rubbish.

Answer 7

Well i'm an Irishman from dublin, i love rugby and love my countries team. We have some history our two countries eh? How about just for saturday we forget the past, i mean there's been good and bad from both sides and way too many people have died i know. But this is rugby a game between two teams of athletes and i for one would like to watch it for what it is Sport! You play your anthem it will make no difference, for 80 mins we will show you how to play good rugby.

Answer 8

I wa under the impression God Save the Queen was the Bristish national anthem and in fact, Land of hope and glory was English. Just like the Scots sing Flower of Scotland, and not GSTQ...

Answer 9

Why shouldn't it be allowed. The IRA killed many innocent people  but nobody would dream of asking Ireland to play a different anthem. By the way they were British soldiers not just English. When asking a question make sure it is factually correct.

Answer 10

luckato are you retarded? what do you mean I.R.A killings?  don't give opinions on something you know nothing about. face facts the English occupied my country and i don't condone the IRA but the English killed many Irish there is no doubt. However i welcome the team on Saturday and don't mind if the anthem is played it is a different generation of English who had no part in what happened to us in 1920 . I believe we need to move on and forgive and good luck to the English team on Saturday by God you ll need it cause were going to hammer ye.

Answer 11

No ******** way.

It shouldn't be played

Answer 12

i was a member of the gaa for yrs,i played camogie for my town and county and country,i think its wonderful that we are sharing our wonderful stadium,the third best in europe,though im not political,i think another song shouldnt  be song..............i just don,t want the irish to let them selves down toimorrow if anythjing starts......................83yrs later

Answer 13

Of course our national anthem should be played.The Germans bombed **** out of London but we played their anthem at Wembley.

The Irish bombed the pedestrian precinct in Warrington the day before Mothers Day killing 2 young kids but there is still an Irish Club  there.Life has to move on the events you are referring to happened 87 years ago.

Answer 14

If they're happy about the English singing the national anthem then let them.

Answer 15

i don't think the english national anthem shud be played because i think that it was a bad decision the GAA made...Croker is the sacred ground for so many people and now foreign games-rugby is being let in to it?i think its wrong and since it is going to happen then why should our ears be insulted with god save the queen?i realise how sad i sound but i was brought up with an unbelievable passion for GAA an despite an injury i still dream of playing the beautiful game in Croker...

Answer 16

I don't know too much about this mate, so I won't say much.

Agree with Lisa though - you should look to the future. On the other hand, people will say it's disrespectful.

Personally, I think as it was 87 years ago then the anthem should be played as we should look to the future. Never forget the past, but always look at the future in the long run.

Answer 17

I'm Irish and proud and I admit it was a terrible thing that happened in 1920. I've lived in England, Australia, America and now back in Ireland so I have an idea of what Irish people think. I became very patriotic when I left Ireland but I feel that this is just another excuse for people to get on their high horse and moan and complain. I'd say there are a few families walking around in Northern Ireland who bump into the killer of one of their family members. Can we not learn from them and stop the complaining. Yes it was a terrible thing that happened but I wonder if those people who died in 1920 were alive today would they be so outspoken or would they want some peace in this country? If something happens on saturday which possibly could it will be the moaners fault for escalating the problem. And yes sunflower is right. The English national anthem was played before in Croke park at the Special Olympics in 2003. So if all these people are so adamant that it should not be in Croke Park, where were they then??

Answer 18

Why can people not let go of past mistakes?.(and I suspect your story is slightly one sided).

All the badly done to terrorists have been released from prison by an English PM,  did anyone wonder if that might be incredibly disrespectful to all those they killed?

It is totally irrelevant in this instance (its only rugby) and if they want to play the national anthem why not?

Although I do think the British national anthem is rubbish and its time for something new!  Its a bitter sweet symphony by the verve might be a good choice!

Oh and I am part Irish by they way .

Answer 19

It was already played loads of times during the Special Olympics, no protests then

Answer 20

This simply is not true. In 2003 the Special Olympics World Summer Games were held in Ireland. The British national anthem was played in Croke Park then. What is the difference?

Does it not count when it's the Special Olympics?

Answer 21

Whilst I understand where you are coming from, I think we all need to start living for now, and not what happened in the past.

Basic human compassion for ones fellow creatures is one thing, but dragging up issues from 87+years ago is silly.

It's a bit like a spouse throwing your last mistake at you every time you don't see eye to eye.

This type of  tactic is not good for a relationship.

ON THE OTHER HAND - - why do I have to sing about my allegiance to my Queen, when I am her subject but not a citizen of my own country?

Answer 22

I'd just like to point out a fatal flaw in the original question to all- there is no English national anthem.

'God save the Queen' is in fact the British national anthem.

'Swing low' and 'Jerusalem' are both fine songs of the English tradition and would make a good RUGBY anthem for the English rugby team.

Also I think in contemporary UK & Irish society we should all be more tolerant of the mix of ethnicity which we are blessed to live in. (I've been watching the 6 nations in my local pub drinking pints of Dutch lager followed by Chinese and Indian Grub, lovely!)

Time to give up the past. If the communities in N Ireland can live in peace now that they have given up the 'Armalite and Ballot box'

who are we to interfere?

Get real- It's a game of sport not a Nationalist Rally!

Answer 23

These events are a long way past now and should be consigned to historical facts. As for the National Anthem, I have always felt that God Save the Queen was a pretty weak offering as it says nothing about the people or the country. I would really like there to be a new English National Anthem as part of the set with Wales, Ireland and Scotland.

Answer 24

I hope that when we get a newly elected PM we will see the practise of singing the National Anthem at these type of events, reviewed, as it would be more fitting if at all English Sporting events they had their own anthem instead of the UK's national anthem. It smacks of British Empire and all that and gives the English nothing to identify with. Nothing to do with not showing respect or allegiance to the crown.

However, to answer you question at this moment in time what is the alternative than to play the UK Anthem and I'm sure whilst the Irish will never forget, they will not give a Castle Mane XXXX at this moment in time. They are a forwarding looking nation, thanks be.

Answer 25

i think it should be played, but if not i vow to thee my country or jerusalem

Answer 26

The think no. Considering that what the english did at Croke Park in 1920 was evil. Out of respect (I doubt they will though) they shouldn't play the national anthem. I mean We  are not allowed to sing out Anthem at Twicknam when we play against the english there.

The GAA spent a year deciding whether or not to even allow the six nations games to be placed there, singing the anthem is pushing it in my opinion. If they do there will be trouble....

My family were at croke park when that happen, so i think no. Out of respect.

Answer 27

It has already been sung during the special olymics.

Answer 28

I can see how a different song would be asked to be played.  I think it would be in their right to ask and it would be a show of good faith for England to pick a different song.  I am not sure what song though because I don't know much about English songs as I am an American.

Answer 29

the reason that shooting took place was the death of 14 service men that day so both sides lost, have we not bent over backwords to help and give them every think they want since so get over it ....lets play ruby and leave the gund and the crying behind irland rfc new of the problems before they went there and we have no problems else where we played before . so long live the game.....

Answer 30

When you started typing this you should have been shown by Yahoo all the similar questions asked recently.

And quite a few taking the p**s out of the situation.

Of course it should be played, how far in history do we go back to decide if an anthem should be played? Is there a definite cutoff date, or should we start a panel who decide. Maybe that would give Rob Andrew something to do.

The banning of the Hakka was bad enough, ridiculous talk of banning the English from singing what ever they feel like singing is a disgrace.

It's a game of rugby, keep it that way

Answer 31

The National anthem of England is "God Save the Queen".I believe it to be an honour to be able to stand in unity with fellow England supporters.Let history be history.What happened in history was a very sad unnecessary and evil.Lessons should be learned and we should look forward.Time for forgiveness and reconciliation.....Or we can all just forget about life good times,sport etc and be sad and justify what happened in history and just do nothing but sulk and mope.No do not even think about changes to an alternative song.The Americans and other nations will not appease anybody why should we. We should be proud of who we are and stand up and sing "God Save the Queen"