Everyone who lives in the USA??

Question

This question is for people in the US [but anyone may answer of course]:

I've seen people talk about g*y marriage and abortion today. Here are my thoughts, but I would like to hear yours.

g*y Marriage: Ok, the issue is a social issue, not a religious issue. A legal marriage is a legal contract between two people. To achieve this, you must go through the court system, which from my knowledge has nothing to do with a church/religion. Legal marriage plays no part in religion. The issue I guess is people think g*y marriage will force churches to allow g*y marriage. No it will not! A church can refuse to marry anyone because they can do what they want. But their wishes should not dictate US policy. g*y individuals just want equal rights under the LAW.

Abortion: Also a social issue. Most abortions occur when all that is in the woman is a couple hundred cells. This does NOT resemble a human in any way, shape, or form. The 'fetus' has no nervous system, so it cannot feel anything. People like to claim life 'begins' at conception. I think these people need to prove to me that it does, without infering religion. Life, by definition, begins when the baby takes its first breathe.

Don't like g*y marriage, don't marry someone of the same-s*x

Don't like abortion, don't have one

Seriously. Your beliefs should not control other peoples' lives. People against these issues need to prove [through a secular arguement] that they are 'wrong'

What do you think?

**Any secular, non-religious reasons against only please.**

Answer 1

O NOES! Not teh logikz!!!11eleventy'

Well said, my friend.

@ cadisneygirl: So why don't you act as a sexual object for the pleasure of men? Romans 1:27

@ stpolycarp77: To you, women are nothing but walking baby machines? What kind of twisted logic is that?

@ Newt: CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL! What your reason why you're against g*y marriage?

@ lady_tapeworm: Then why did nature give us eyeballs that make images upside-down and backwards to our retinas? Or tailbones? Or wisdom teeth?

Answer 2

Both these issues are religious because they go against God's laws and commandments.  

Answer 3

Are you suggesting a sane and logical way to deal with peoples personal choices? How dare you!!!  

Answer 4

AGREED!

Answer 5

I THINK THAT ITS WRONG TO MARRY SOMEONE OF THE SAME s*x!!!!!

Answer 6

If the laws concerning g*y marriage (in allowing it universally, should that ever come about) protect a church's "right to choose" (isn't that context ironic?), then I don't see a serious issue with two people of the same s*x trying to be happy with a single, monogamous partner.  

The problem is many Protestant churches are actually in the "marriage" business - whether that church can meet it's charity goals (or in small churches, even feed the minister's family) depends on how many marriages it can hope to perform.  Now I'm sure you know as well as I do just how litigious our society is, especially if the ACLU feels it should involve itself - if the Methodist Church down the street is willing to marry a couple that is not particularly religious but wants a "church" wedding (and this is VERY wide spread in America), that church is going to have a tough time proving it is not discriminating against a g*y couple - who are no more or less members of that church than the heterosexual couple who just want a church wedding - when the Methodist pastor says "no, I won't marry you."  Even if the g*y couple cannot hope to win the case, they will still cost that church legal fees that could be wholly avoided if there were laws in place that defend a person performing a wedding ceremony - and whatever building structure they are affiliated with - from having the right to choose who they will and will not perform services for....

...sound a lot like the Old South and it's Jim Crow laws?  Who they will and will not serve at the dining counter?  It's not wholly different...the freedom of religion clause only stops the gov't from "making" laws that deal with religion, not necessarily protecting them...and as g*y marriage becomes more and more prevalent, it's not the courts who will be a problem for the churches but the communities they belong to...it may come a day when a minister that refuses to marry a g*y couple will be called a "bigot" and other names, and his church will suffer those indignities too...the societal pressures will force the church to adopt measures it could not have conceived itself adopting only a generation before...

Like I said, I have no problems with g**s being married - finding the advantages like insurance and other things that come with wedded bliss is fine...but I also understand why some churches fight so hard to maintain their identities in a world that constantly tells them they must conform....and that sounds like what religion has forced on people through much of it's history - is it possible that secular humanism will repeat the mistakes they accuse religion of perpetrating for centuries?

Sorry I didn't get to the abortion question, I've taken up a lot of space with this...I'll just say I disagree with the responder that states that "abortion is at the heart of the murder question"...it isn't...murder is an act of violence, abortion is a choice derived from a person's sense of self-perservation - what they can and can't handle at that point in their life...with so many splintered families, it doesn't surprise me that many young women feel incapable of taking care of a child...and the divorce rates in this nation have only made those avenues of support grow even dimmer....

Answer 7

Every law passed in every country is based on values and morals.

You pass laws to protect what you value.  

g*y marriage is at the heart of how society is established and abortion is at the heart of the murder question.  Both are very much a concern to the fabric of society.  These make them more than just issues about what I believe or you believe.  If it affects society in general then it becomes an issue of what we feel is in the best interest of our particular society.

If I feel traditional marriage is important to preserving our society and culture and you dont then why is what you think more important than what I think?

Its all based on our own personal biases.  Even those for g*y marriage have their own personal beliefs as to appropriate and inappropriate acceptable behavior in society.  

Abortion is a diff issue altogether because if you believe life begins at conception then abortion is murder and murder is just wrong, period.  If life begins at birth then its not murder and so why shouldnt someone be able to have an abortion?  Science itself cant proclaim an answer for this and its up to the individual to argue their points.  

Murder of the innocent shouldnt be tolerated in any society, imo, but then you still have to argue, when is it murder?

Abortion isnt even close to being a religious issue.

Michael

How was my answer religious in any way?????

Why are you applying religious standards to it??????

People it is atheists that always scream about how morals and values are not religious.  Yet whenever a religious person applies standards of morality to their political beliefs you cry foul and claim religious interference.  Which is it?  Why is it atheists can vote and support their political leanings on their own morals and standards and yet when religious people apply their morals and values its imposing their religion?

Its such a ridiculous double standard and its so obvious and yet so many people cant see it.  

It also shows an incredible lack of knowledge for how US laws are established and what the Constitution actually says.

Answer 8

g*y Marriage: DON'T CARE. I don't care if g*y people get married. What does it matter if they're married? They're still gonna be g*y. WHY does this bother people? DON'T CARE.

Abortion: PRO-CHOICE. HOW are you going to make a decision like raising a child FOR SOMEONE ELSE???!!! YOU'RE the one fxcking living with it, are you? NO! And for all of you who say oh, just give it up for adoption! Fxck you! You carry a baby for nine months in your belly, feeling it kick and squirm...and then just hand it over! And what if some rich family doesn't want to adopt your baby? Huh? Foster care for the rest of their life? Bad things happen in foster care dude, we all know that. It's a baby!!! It deserves the best of everything! And I HATE people for saying, oh it's your fault you're the one who got pregnant. Oh, really? Ever heard of a BROKEN CONDOM? Ever heard of date rape? the list goes on and on. IT IS NOT JUST THE WOMAN'S FAULT FOR GETTING PREGNANT. There is a man involved in there somewhere if I recall.

Sorry, I get worked up about being pro-choice. :)

Answer 9

YOUR beliefs should not control our lives either!

Both same s*x marriage and abortion are disordered moral issues, not merely "religious" issues. In brief, same s*x marriages destroy the family and goes against the moral law of pro-creation. Since life begins at conception abortion is nothing other then murder.

Answer 10

First of all The Mosaic Laws of the God Yahweh were written as judicial laws for a country to follow from the start not as the religious laws we labeled them as. Yahweh picked Moses as a leader of a nation or a country not a leader or a priest to lead a church. Moses was the President of Yahweh's nation or the Prime Minister of Yahweh's nation. That said, America has modeled its' judicial laws after the Mosaic Laws of Yahweh from the beginning of this country when it branched itself off from England. That is why we swear on The Bible in our courts of law. These are the laws we are swearing to Yahweh to follow and uphold in America. Do the people of America think that it is a fluke that America's stance on the issues you mention above are the same as Gods. Our founding fathers knew that in order for America to become the greatest nation in the world it would have to follow the Laws and worship the only real God that exists, the God Yahweh.

Answer 11

How can any peace be achieved when the morality of a country is corrupt? If we can't decide when life begins, what limits on abortion would there be? Some have your view that life doesn't begin until a breath is taken. They take this view far enough to perform partial birth abortions. That's when a fully developed baby is delivered backwards and with the head still in the birth canal, the doctor kills the baby. Obama has even headed a committee that if a child survived an abortion, that it still should not be protected. In other words, if a woman really does not want the child, that it's okay to destroy it. How are we as a nation supposed to be a moral leader with these policies?

That's just the abortion issue. g*y marriage is getting settled in the courts. It is not the courts that are to make laws. Only interpret and judge. Why is it that those who want g*y marriage haven't gone through congress? Because when a protection of marriage vote comes up, every state's citizens vote for protecting marriage as it stands by over 70%. Congress knows this and still won't amend the constitution to protect marriage. But they won't allow g*y marriage either so they go to the courts. And that is unconstitutional.

I hope this shows in a small way what is wrong with these issues without using religion.

Answer 12

Okay heres the deal mate. im british. im a good third party guy. It seems that they anti abortion people are that way because they think that as soon as something is concieved its alive and kicking, which may very well be true. g*y marrage is good too.

Answer 13

Can't argue against you, since I agree.

The real issue is: should religious belief trump secular reasoning?

Unfortunately, too many theists believe it has to.

Answer 14

I agree with you. I think g*y marriage should be legal and it is a woman's decision whether to have an abortion or not. If you don't agree, then don't do either, but do not try to take away someone else's rights.

Answer 15

im ok with g*y marriage

but with abortion i keep private, i only tell very close friends of mine how i truly feel, it's one of those subjects that u keep to yourself and noone speaks about.  

Answer 16

I think the government should stay out of both areas as well as the churches. The state cannot impose any law or decree that has to do with the enforcement of religious views, so the church should stay out of the affairs of the state. Every time one gets mixed up with the other all kinds of c**p breaks loose. look at Germany in the '20's and into the '40's, the rise of the n**i party, Russia and the communist party, Rome and the rise of the Catholic church and about 700 years of the dark ages.

These little laws may spell the beginning of an end to our democracy, al-be-it screwed up as it is, is still the best on Earth. Iwould say let the people involved in each individual episode take care of the problem in their own way.  

Answer 17

People's personal choices should be just that. Private and personal. No one has the right to interfere with that. That is sticking our noses where they don't belong. We need to leave each other alone and let us be happy and live our own lives. The government has no right to make laws about our personal lives. Other people have no right to judge or condemn our personal lives. We each need to worry about our own. Control of others lives causes the body to start shutting down, it commits suicide because we weren't meant to be controlled.

Answer 18

on the topic of abortion, i was almost aborted until my mother decided to go ahead and have me. It's weird to think that here i am a complete person that wouldn't have had a chance to live if she had had the abortion...

So in other words I don't think the issue of whether abortion is wrong or not is because of the murder factor, but rather that you are taking this eventual person's right to have a life just because it's inconvenient to you. In the event of rape then i suppose it'd be ok.

For g*y marriage: I must admit i'm biased against homosexuals, but look at how nature made us. Men and Women just have the right parts to be together and that's how it was intended.  

Answer 19

I won't say religious things, to go by the rules. Social Laws, bleh.

People are only g*y/L*****n/bi because.. of a different sexual sensation.

Seriously, if a boy likes a boy but doesn't want s*x with, he's straight.

If a girl likes a girl because the first girl wants to try it, she's L*****n.

Abortion, that's killing a life!

Besides, if it was banned, then prostitution will sky rocket and people will never learn their lesson!

If you had a daughter going into prostitution but gets pregnant, do you want her to just have an abortion and do it again?

Or do you want her to learn her lesson and never do it again?

Answer 20

It doesn't matter what I say on the subject, it matters what God says.   He says homosexuality is an abomination and abortion is murder.  My "religious" beliefs are a part of who I am, I can't answer in a secular way, as I'm not like you.

Seriously.

Answer 21

All these abortions and same s*x marriages, we need RELIGION MAN!  Special powers include; transubstantiation (not popular in Subway), quotation, stigmata and spittle-chin.

Answer 22

No problem with your arguments.  Although as an Atheist, I am pro life.

That means no death penalty.  The idea that life begins at conception is Bhuddist, not Xian, they just stole it.

But, I think abortion must be legal.  We already tried it the other way and it was a big FAIL.

g*y marriage

Why should I care what other people consensually do.  But I think this is a human rights issue.  Our constitution guarantees the right of all American citizens to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  Denying one group is as UN AMERICAN as you can get.

Answer 23

I don't really care about g*y marriage either way but one statement you made doesn't make sense.

You said, "g*y individuals just want equal rights under the LAW. "

The fact is that g*y individuals have equal rights.  They have been allowed to marry a person of the opposite s*x just like straight people have been able to marry a person of the opposite s*x.  That is equal since straight people haven't been allowed to marry a person of the same s*x either.  Now if what you mean is that g*y individuals want what they want (to marry a person of the same s*x) that doesn't mean they don't have the same rights.  Think about it.  

Obviously social issue does equal religious issue for many people.  Maybe they don't believe the government should impose a certain religion but most xtian Americans believe the USA was founded as  Christian nation and should at least follow some basic xtian moral beliefs.  It is all in where you draw the line between social issue and religious issue.  

My opinion is that I don't care about g*y marriage either way.  I would like to see no person get an abortion.  Fact is that it will likely never be outlawed again.  Changing a ruling that was handed down by the supreme court is near impossible.  Trying to pretend that it can happen is just a fantasy for some people.  

Answer 24

Well, I support g*y marriage and I'm pro-choice... so I guess your question doesn't apply to me.

However, I have actually known people to give answers that:

"Well, being g*y is just gross."

As well as:

"If they're stupid and get pregnant, they should just deal with it for being a s**t."

Unfortunately... I'm serious.  

Answer 25

I agree with you BUT fundie won't cos they do not employ reason; they employ emotion and the strongest emotion is FEAR.

I am reminded of:

"you can’t reason someone out of a position with reason that they did not come to with reason."

Fundie do NOT agree with individual freedom; they pull all possible emotive strings to force everyone to become enslaved by their delusions ... as they are.

~

Answer 26

OK, you don't want to know what I personally have against those two.  Here are reasons against g*y marriage and abortion in this country.

Abortion - Abortion in this country is not about a woman's right to do as she pleases with her body and her offspring.  It's about two things: First, giving married 35 year old men an out when they impregnate teen girls - Planned Parenthood is supposed to BY LAW notify the police when a minor comes in for an abortion due to s*x with an adult - instead they coach the girls to say they have a 15 year old boyfriend and they just can't afford a baby.  Second, abortion in the USA is about keeping the black and hispanic population under control.  Planned Parenthood targets black and hispanic communities to kill their offspring.

g*y marriage - AKA having g*y people register themselves as g*y people with the government.  g*y people think we Christians persecute them.  Wait until the Left has given this country away to the Muslims.  When Shiite Law hits, all the registered handguns (take a hint from the NRA - DON'T REGISTER GUNS) will be confiscated and all g**s will be executed in the public square.