Family Research? Does this sound like incest?

Question

Ok in 1878 My grt grt grt grandmother had a son, named his Ernest Jaynes, on his birth certificate it says, mothers surname and madien name, she put Eliza Jaynes, fathers name is blank

but on Ernests marriage certificate, it says fathers name, John Jaynes

so why would his mother and father have the name last name? its not very common, jaynes? if his mother was married, when it asked for madien name wouldnt she have put, something else is jaynes was her married name?

Answer 1

It could be that Eliza married a cousin, or that Eliza was married prior to being married to John Jaynes to a brother or another relative of John Jaynes.

In those days it was hard to bring up a family with no support of a man, and vice versa, so people did marry a lot more times in their life time to what they do now in order to provide for their children.

I have a similar incidence with someone in my tree. However, the mother had had the child out of wedlock, she then got married, and her husband accepted the child. In some census's it show the boys name as her unmarried name, and others it shows it as the boy then taking the married name of the mother.

Unless you get the birth Certs for the mother and the boy, and the marriage cert/certs for the mother you will never really be sure.

Addition: Just a thought. Ernest could have had a stand in father at his wedding, especially if he was born out of wedlock. It could have been another relative with the Jaynes name as a stand in. In some of the very old records, i.e: county marriages and probate records not always were two names provided, and people were allowed witnesses.

Answer 2

I would say that the most direct route is finding when/ where Eliza died, IF she had  death cert.. or what ever other means you would be using to find and verify Eliza's parents.

the fact that Jaynes shows up on the certificate as her maiden name, does not confirm that this is a fact.  Pure, straight and simple. You won't know this until you find allied records.

My GUESS is that Eliza is actually Jaynes, it is probably her maiden name, and baby is born out of wedlock.  The John who appears on the marriage cert for Ernest, may never have existed (he might have said this, to conceal the lack of father).

You really don't have enough evidence to be totally sure. If you do locate a marriage document for John and Eliza, both named Jaynes.. then your step is to find the parents of each, and are they related?  (another scenario, if you find such a marriage.. Eliza is a widow, and her first husband was Jaynes, maybe a brother to John).

All I am saying, is that strange things happen, and more evidence or proof will explain it.  If you find proof that this is her maiden name, then I'll wager that this was out of wedlock birth.

Answer 3

I have a similar occurrence on a Marriage certificate, turns out they were first cousins and no under UK law it is legal and not counted as incest.

Answer 4

It was 1878, and inter-familial relationships were quite common.

They may well have been cousins.

Answer 5

When I was growing up, my Mom was known only as "Mrs._____". Never by her given name; never by her maiden name.

It could well mean nothing at all; most places did NOT have birth certificates in 1878 (more than 20 years before my parents were born; neither of them ever had a birth certificate made when born).  My Mom had a birth certificate made when I was about 12 or so; she had to find people who knew her parents and they swore that she was born of the Mr & Mrs....

My guess this is what happened in your family.  It could also mean that they were cousins; every state (48) when I was growing up allowed 2nd cousings to marry; New York state allowed first cousins to marry.

Let's face it; go back 2 centuries or so and probably everyone married a relative; by the time you go back 2 millenia, there is no doubt whatsoever that people married relatives. (If they didn't marry relatives, they would have had to have married some animal!)

See:

“Mapping Human History: Discovering the Past Through Our Genes” by Steve Olson

"Genealogy 101" by Barbara Renick and

"Trace Your Roots with DNA: Using Genetic Tests to Explore Your Family Tree" by Megan Smolenyak Smolenyak and Ann Turner.

“Before the Flood: The Biblical Flood as a Real Event and How it Changed the Course of Civilization” by Ian Wilson

But, there is one way to find out: do the research.  Try:

You should start by asking all your living relatives about family history.  Then, armed with that information, you can go to your public library and check to see if it has a genealogy department.  Most do nowadays; also, don't forget to check at community colleges, universities, etc.  Our public library has both www.ancestry.com and www.heritagequest.com free for anyone to use (no library card required).

Another place to check out is any of the Mormon's Family History Centers.  They allow people to search for their family history (and, NO, they don't try to convert you).

A third option is one of the following websites:

http://www.searchforancestors.com/...

http://www.censusrecords.net/?o_xid=2739...

http://www.usgenweb.com/

http://www.census.gov/

http://www.rootsweb.com/

http://www.ukgenweb.com/

http://www.archives.gov/

http://www.familysearch.org/

http://www.accessgenealogy.com/...

http://www.cyndislist.com/

http://www.geni.com/

Cyndi's has the most links to genealogy websites, whether ship's passenger lists, ancestors from Africa, ancestors from the Philippines, where ever and whatever.

Of course, you may be successful by googling: "john doe, born 1620, plimouth, massachusetts" as an example.

Good luck and have fun!

Check out this article on five great free genealogy websites:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article...

Then there is the DNA test; if you decide you want to REALLY know where your ancestors came from opt for the DNA test. Besides all the mistakes that officials commonly make, from 10% to 20% of birth certificates list the father wrong; that is, mama was doing the hanky-panky and someone else was the REAL father. That won't show up on the internet or in books; it WILL show up in DNA.

I used www.familytreedna.com which works with the National Geographics Genotype Program.

Answer 6

It could be that some other member of her family agreed to have guardianship over the baby?

Answer 7

"but on Ernests marriage certificate, it says fathers name, John Jaynes"

It is possible that John Jaynes does not exist and Ernest made him up, as he did not want to leave the father`s name column blank on his marriage certificate.

I had one like that.  My great grandmother was born illegitimately, but there is is fictional father entered on her marriage certificate.

They didn`t always tell the truth back then.

Answer 8

Another thing you have to consider she might have married a cousin.  It might have been a first cousin, but then it might have been a 2nd of third and that would not be considered incest. States in the U.S. as a rule do not allow first cousins to marry.

If you go back far enough, you will find ancestors that married cousins of varying degree.  Actually some people find out for the first time that they married a distant cousin when they do family research.

Answer 9

My partner is doing his family tree & has found out that way back his cousins married each other, his quite happy that he was adopted into the family now!

Answer 10

Could it be tht your " grt grt grt grandmother" made a mistake and put in her name after marriage than her maiden name?

Answer 11

You don't list the country where the birth was registered and that would impact the answer. In Canada and parts of the US, it was common to list the mother's married name, not her maiden name. So she may indeed have been married to John Jaynes and he was just accidentally left off.

By the same turn, it wasn't uncommon for phantom fathers back then. A young woman who found herself pregnant could pop up in another town as a "widow" and no one knew the difference.

One last possibility is that John was his biological father but died before Ernest was born. In some places, a child born after probate was not eligible to inherit and the father may have been left off the birth record for that reason.

If you give us a location, we can try researching Eliza and John to see if they were really married.

Answer 12

married

Answer 13

Another possible explanation is that Ernest may have 'invented' his father's name to try to hide that he was born 'out of wedlock'. Have you found a John Jaynes in the family?

Further: It would probably help if you can track this family in the 1881, 1891 and 1901 census records. At least the 1881 records are freely accessible online at www.familysearch.org

For 1891 you could try www.freecen.org - but not many counties are complete yet (Cornwall is - that's the one I have worked on!). Otherwise it will be a case of paying to access the records or going to your local record office to trawl through them.

Good Luck!