Fellow atheists: a thought for your consideration please?

Question

It's easy to paint Christians out to be monsters/ignorant/stupid etc. but in reality, this seems rather unfair at least in the majority of cases.

I see so often that atheists quote the inconsistencies, irationalities or immoral laws from the Bible and I agree that it is good for a Christian to give thought to these questions but there's a flaw in many of your attitudes that is ethically irrational and irresponsible itself.

The reality is that most Christians DON'T stone homosexuals, disobediant kids, people who work on the sabbath etc. and they DON'T read commandments of God to rip open the enemy's pregnant women, rape the maidens etc. and agree support them.

For most Christians, they have faith in a kind and loving God and they have a personal relationship with him. They follow their conscience in the same way as any of us do but they just believe it to be divine or the Holy Spirit. If they even read these controversial parts of the Bible then they probably don't think about them because they have faith in the God that they know themselves and He would not do that. They don't generally allow it to overrule their conscience. It just means that there are things they don't know and that's okay.

Now you and I may find this thinking a little dodgy but I think we should keep in mind that their reactions to this criticism is more to do with feeling under threat than a defense of the immoral.

So we need to show more respect for Christians even while we point out flaws in the Bible, faith or evil/ignorant people who also happen to be Christians.

Continuing to act in the vitriolic fashion that I see some (not necessarily the majority of) atheists displaying on this forum is decidedly unhelpful if your goal is to challenge with a view to educating or changing attitudes that you consider to be wrong or unhelpful so either you're dishonest or just mean and that just feeds into the incorrect perception of atheists shared by some Christians.

Answer 1

OK - I'm a Christian but I read this anyway and wanted to say thank you.

There are some (not all) Atheists here that do respond harshly to some of the extreme Christians. My personal fear is that this is the kind of response that feeds their extremists views and makes them feel justified in sticking their beliefs where they don't belong. They think the world is going to h**l. Why stir them up any more.

I'm a Christian that firmly believes in separation of Church and State (in the U.S.) and I'm pro-choice. I would hate to think that we're encouraging some fundies here to become more activist than they already are.

So again, thanks for your question.

EDIT to Tigris. Again, you assume we all think the Bible is fact. I don't. It's Biblical stories. We're just not all the same. I'm sorry that you can't see that.

Answer 2

I see your point, and moderate christians are certainly more tolerant than fundies, but their level-headed tolerance is the product of secular ideals, NOT their religion. They cloak their 'faith' with a sprinkling of reason, pick and choose from their magic book, and give cover to the nutjobs, albeit unintentionally.

"If they even read these controversial parts of the Bible then they probably don't think about them..." - exactly.

Answer 3

actually, why don't they? Stone homosexuals and disobedient children? It tells so in the bible.

How does one get an expert to figuring out which part of the bible are OK to follow and which parts it's better to ignore? If you don't follow all of it, what is your authority what parts to discard? If you don't have any, can you call yourself a christian, or aren't you just somebody who has a wishy-washy belief system. Why do you throw out the parts of the bible which asks you to give all your possessions away?

You are saying that your conscience is better than god. If that's the case, why do you pretent to follow your religion, if you really follow your conscience? This is about the worst apologetics you can come up with, sorry.

Answer 4

Good to see a balanced opinion here for once. Good for you. I'm agnostic, and I agree with you. Unlike many atheists here, I have a social life and know many Christians personally.

Answer 5

Thank you so very much for those words.  I frequently remind my fellow Christians to not respond rudely or mean and

to not post questions that are degrading and insulting to atheists.

I think we can debate in a mature manner without all this hostility.  Otherwise, as you said, it is simply just being mean set on the table, this, from both sides.

You are a breath of fresh air!!

Thank you again, and I am sorry that I answered as it was posted to atheists, but your words were so honest and refreshing that I couldn't help myself!

Edit - I do read the controversial portions of the bible and I likely see the reasoning different than what you do, but no, I do not believe that we should stone our children, stone homosexuals or stone those working on the sabbath.  Nor do I believe that God wishes us to do this either.  Anyway, i just thought I should elaborate on that as it was part of the question.  Again, you are certainly a breathe of fresh air and I will continue to reason with my fellow Christians in making a choice to not be mean and hateful and to not be demeaning and insulting.  Thanks again!

Answer 6

I'm definitely an atheist. However, I can see that religion serves a purpose in many people's lives. I wish people didn't lose the capacity to think logically for themselves, but I honestly don't spend much time thinking about Christians. I wish they didn't spend so much time thinking about me or asking at EVERY job I get whether I'm saved, but I do live in the South, so I mostly ignore that, too. I'm surprised by people's unthinking reliance on Christianity, but I'm also surprised by how angry people become over these topics.

Answer 7

"For most Christians, they have faith in a kind and loving God and they have a personal relationship with him"

This is actually the thing I have a problem with, far more than any inconsistencies or bad rules in the bible. The belief in a being for which there is no reason to believe, and the claim of a personal relationship with that being are very troubling to me. People who hold such deeply-held beliefs are people who need a good talking to.

Answer 8

Why the h**l should I show respect for someone who refuses to show me respect in return? My vitriol is a direct response to their hate-filled wish to deny rights to g**s and lesbians, to attack science education and to attempt to force their God into the politics of this nation. Not to mention their constant judging and informing others that they are h**l bound.

Not ALL Christians, but the most fundie of them... I have friends that are Christian that do not behave this way - and THEY deserve and get my respect.

Answer 9

"If they even read these controversial parts of the Bible then they probably don't think about them because they have faith in the God that they know themselves and He would not do that. They don't generally allow it to overrule their conscience. It just means that there are things they don't know and that's okay"

You're right in that theists and atheist tend to go for each other's throat here and should be more civil, but the condescending "forgive them for they know not what they do" attitude in the quoted phrase kind of sticks out. They're not stupid, they're not ignorant, they're not children. They are just people with opinions other than your own.

Respecting another's opinion is harder than just being civil, but it's worth a try.

Answer 10

The "moderates" may be tolerant, they may even accept reality when not in Church, but they are still using belief in an imaginary being as a crutch.

And if you use a crutch when you don't need to, it makes your legs grow weak.

Also, the "moderate theist" position lends credibility to the wackier positions  (e.g. making death threats against people who stick nails in biscuits, flying aeroplanes into buildings, &c.)

Answer 11

I completely agree.  And I mean that.

We *could* go one further by being nice to fundies who call us evil, fools, wicked, 'do no good' etc...you know, the ones who teach their kids that non-Christians are the filth of the earth to be pitied...but I sincerely believe we didn't get where we were today (secular society) by smiling and nodding at those type of insults..

I'll go with the golden rule.  I would hope someone would respond in kind if I was being a judgemental and arrogant jerk.  How else would I learn...