Followers of Judaism & Christianity, how is this story correct? ?

Question

example according to Gen. 16:16 Abraham alayhi salaam (peace be upon him) was 86 years old when Ishmael was born. And according to Gen. 21:5 Abraham was one hundred years old when Isaac alayhi salaam was born. It follows that Ishmael was already fourteen years old when his younger brother Isaac was born. According to Gen. 21:8-19 the incident took place after Isaac was weaned. Biblical scholars tell us the child was probably weaned at about the age of three. Thus, it follows that when Hagar and Ishmael alayhi salaam were taken away Ishmael was a full-grown teenager, seventeen years old. However, the profile of Ishmael in Gen 21:14-19 is a small baby and not a full-grown teenager. Why?

Genesis 21:14-21

14 Early next morning Abraham took some food and a full water-skin and gave them to Hagar. He set the child on her shoulder and sent her away, and she wandered about in the wilderness of Beersheba. 15 When the water in the skin was finished, she thrust the child under a bush, 16 then went and sat down some way off, about a bowshot distant. How can I watch the child die? she said, and sat there, weeping bitterly. 17 God heard the child crying, and the angel of God called from heaven to Hagar, What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid: God has heard the child crying where you laid him. 18 Go, lift the child and hold him in your arms, because I shall make of him a great nation. 19 Then God opened her eyes and she saw a well full of water; she went to it, filled the water-skin, and gave the child a drink. 20 God was with the child as he grew up.

1. the original Hebrew for Gen. 21:14 is " and put the bread and water on her shoulder AND the boy." Anyone fluent in Hebrew can confirm this.

How would a mother carry a seventeen-year-old teenager on her shoulder? Certainly he was probably strong enough to carry his mother. Ishmael must have been a baby!

Second, in Gen 21:15 we are told that Hagar put the child under one of the bushes. Ishmael must have been a baby and not a teenager!

Third, in Gen 21:16 we are told that Hagar sat away so she did not have to see the child die before her eyes. Is this the profile of a husky seventeen-year-old teenager who probably was capable of being worried about his mother dying before his eyes? Or is it obviously a profile of a small helpless baby? Ishmael must have been a baby and not a teenager!

Conclusion, dont u think the incident of Ismael mocking baby Is'haq was created by writers/wrong-doers? don't u think the biased writers of Genesis, who wanted to claim only Is'haq's descendants to be favoured, threw insults at Abraham's son? wasn't Abraham favoured by His 1Lord, therefore Ismael & Is'haq would be favoured?

someone stated this with 100% surety:

"Because Abraham did so, God provided the sacrificial ram in place of Isaac, his only son at that time. Ishmael was born later. Hope that answers your question.

Answer 1

It can be quite amusing to watch religious people torture logic in an attempt to make a consistent, sensible account out of a Bible story.

Answer 2

Michelle R has it down to a science - couldn't have said it any better than she did!

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From the Parsha  in Vayeira, it describes these actions, just as Michelle's commentary stated:

The expulsion of Hagar

Sarah saw Hagar’s son Ishmael playing, and Sarah told Abraham to cast Hagar and Ishmael out, saying that Ishmael would not share in Abraham’s inheritance with Isaac. (Gen. 21:9–10.)

Sarah’s words greatly distressed Abraham, but God told Abraham not to be distressed but to do whatever Sarah told him, for Isaac would carry on Abraham’s line, and God would make a nation of Ishmael, too. (Gen. 21:11–13.)

Early the next morning, Abraham placed some bread and water on Hagar’s shoulder, together with Ishmael, and sent them away. (Gen. 21:14.)



Hagar and Ishmael (painting by Giovanni Battista Tiepolo)Hagar and Ishmael wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba, and when the water ran out, she left the child under a bush, sat down a bowshot away so as not to see the child die, and burst into tears. (Gen. 21:14–16.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vayeira

Answer 3

I'm fairly fluent in Hebrew, and I hate to wreck your theory, but it doesn't say that he put Ishmael on her shoulder.  

14.  And Abraham arose up early in the morning, and took bread and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away; and she departed, and strayed in the wilderness of Beer-sheba.

The "and the child" is a separated clause that does not fit structurally with "on her shoulder" - only the food is on her shoulder. "And the child" could mean that he was also given to her to take with him, or it could mean that he took Hagar, to whom he gave the food and water, and Ishmael, and sent them away.   As you correctly point out, Ishmael was too old to fit on her shoulder, by any definition - that alone should be proof enough that he was not a baby and that your translation was incorrect.  In fact, according to longstanding Jewish tradition, the reason that Ishmael had to be sent away was that he would shoot arrows at Yitzchak (Isaac) for fun, endangering his life.  So there is no basis in Judaism for assuming him to be a baby at the time of Hagar's and his exile, either.  

The food and the water had run out, and Ishmael, it is assumed, had passed out from the conditions.  She put him under the bush for protection, as any mother would do with her son -- honestly, as any person would do with a loved one of any age, to protect him from the sun and predators.  

You are right in saying that there seems to be a contradiction in the ages - that the way the text is written, Ishmael sounds like a much younger child than the teenager that the Torah simultaneously suggests him to be.  But if you look at the ages of most of the Torah's protagonists, the ages of children don't always line up with modern-day child development.  Perhaps that is because in the Torah the death ages are also incredibly high - people regularly were reported to live well past 100 years old.  Which to me points to the stories being more allegorical than factual, but also suggests to some that years were weighted differently in those days.  Regardless of why, at the time that Abraham takes Yitzchak to offer him as a sacrifice, the same word for boy - "na'ar" - is used that is used for Ishmael.  And he too sounds like a small child.  But according to Jewish understanding of scriptures, at that time Yitzchak was actually 37 - not a child at all.

I am not going to address your assertion that the Torah, which Jews and Christians both consider to be handed down by G-d, to be "created by writers/wrong-doers" other than to tell you that it is highly offensive.  Considering that the Qur'an was written centuries after the advent of Christianity, and thousands of years after the Torah, for you to make the assumption that it must be more correct and draw from it the conclusion that it was not written by people with an agenda, is specious at best.

You are welcome to believe whatever interpretation of the stories as you'd like.  Ishmael is believed by all three "Abrahamic" religions to be the ancestor of Islam, and he is not portrayed as entirely sweet and innocent in the Torah, so no wonder Mohammed chose to give him a new role in your creation myths.  As far as the actual truth of the stories go, honestly, they were all written by people.  Possibly divinely inspired people.  To pretend that the Qur'an is not similarly filled with inaccuracies and holes shows either an imperfect understanding of it, or a willful blindness in favor of your own religious biases.

But thanks for playing.  I'm sure you'll find some lovely parting gifts.

Answer 4

Please list the Bible you got this from as I have looked in two and they both say that Abraham put the food and water on her shoulders and sent her and the boy away. Then left the boy by a bush.  

Answer 5

Here is the scripture in question:

Gen 21:14  And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave [it] unto Hagar, putting [it] on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.

The Hebrew word for child here is "yeled. See that it means also youth, son or boy!

Hebrew for H3206 ילד Transliteration

yeled

Pronunciation

yeh'·led (Key)



Part of Speech

masculine noun

Root Word (Etymology)

from H3205



TWOT Reference

867b



Outline of Biblical Usage 1) child, son, boy, offspring, youth

a) child, son, boy

b) child, children

c) descendants

d) youth

e) apostate Israelites (fig.)

Thw wording is a bit awkward but thats what happens when moving form one language to another

Answer 6

Ishmael was a baby in the knowledge of God, Hagar carried the burden on her shoulders of raising a child alone.  

Answer 7

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