For all those Pro-Adoption zealots?

Question

Do you really believe adoption should be an unregulated 1.4 billion dollar industry?

Do you really think there is no trauma when a child is separated from his/her mother? If so have you ever read child development or books on attachment?

Is giving an infant to a financially more secure family any reason to separate a child for life from their own family? If so should you look for a richer family to take the children you now have?

How is securing children for wealthier families any different than child trafficking?

Answer 1

No one thinks it SHOULD be what you say it is, BUT IT IS.

Everyone knows (st least they should) that adoption is hard on EVERYONE except the agency, of course.

So what do we do... ban adoption? ah NO

What we do is push for adoption reform. DEMAMD politicians share their views ann what they plan to do on these issuse.

Also I'm sure most women look for families with more to offer than JUST MORE MONEY. There's more to being a good parent than that.  I think your statements are too generalized and over the top to even be an influence for your cause. Bring it down a notch and don't make blanket statements.

Oh heay, Yse i'm sure there was trauma when my son was separated from his mother, Mostly withdraw, but cutting the cord saved his life.

Answer 2

Joy: Why do you choose to ignore adoptees like me? I'm going to cut and paste what I wrote on the last post. Maybe it will sink in. By the way, I'm a successful high school counselor who has way more experience dealing with familial issue than you ever will. Go ahead and find some way to discredit me. Spout out that mumbo jumbo about secretly keeping my feelings hidden or pushed deep down.

I'm secure in who I am. Apparently your not. I'm happy with being adopted. My parents can have bio kids and we had a mix of both in our family. They chose to adopt first before they even had bio children. I never felt like they had favorites. In fact, most of the time, I was accused of being the "favorite". I feel sorry for you and other anti adopters. If it makes you feel better, you can accuse me of secretly hiding my feelings of abandonment and secretly pushing down all these feelings of hate. You can accuse me of not being a "deep" person. If this makes you feel better, so be it. It's really just sad and pathetic.

I think it's funny that I get thumbs down simply for being happy. It shows that some people can't stand that anybody is happy with adoption. You want all of us to be miserable so we can make you feel better about yourself. Thanks for proving my point!

Edit: I'm a she first off. I know my birth family and extended birth family. I'm still very glad I was adopted. Guess that blows your theory out of the water Sunny.

Answer 3

People being human and, therefore, imperfect, things can go either wrong or right with adoptions, just as with anything else.

The cost to adopt is quite expensive.  I estimate that my wife & I have spent an average of $15,000 for each of our 3 adoptions.  This does not count my loss in work time and wages.  Whereas I would like to have not spent so much, each of my children are worth it.

I do believe it should be regulated.  However, it is currently regulated in the wrong way.  There is not a whole lot of oversight as to costs.  Most of the oversight is of things such as:  Will a black child being adopted by a white couple be exposed to their heritage?  Will adoptive parents be sensitive if their child grows up to be homosexual?

When you speak of adopting a child to a more financially secure family, we are not speaking of Reggie & Cynthia Gotrocks.  We are simply speaking of providing a more stable home environment.

There is, indeed, trauma when separating children from their parents, whether adopted or biological.  Most children are adopted from birth.  My 3 each went home with us straight from the hospital.

In all of this, the alternative for these children is worse.  For the newborn, the possibility of being aborted before birth is much worse for both the baby, and the mother, than being adopted after birth.  With the child, you have an unnecessary death.  With the abortive mom, you have a woman who must face that she has had her child killed.  There is an eventual recognition of that truth in over 95% of all cases of abortion.

It is, of course, ideal that any child be with their biological parents.  However, in the cases where that is just not feasible, adoption is a great, healthy alternative.

Answer 4

i have read your posts in the past and think you are intelligent and slightly hostile. i can understand, adoption strikes a chord with a broad range of people. you make very valid points and express them well, but please understand that it isnt always baby trafficking.

i am an adpotee zealot as you call, i guess. i was adopted, had a good secure life and have found both my birthparents. no hard feelings toward anyone in my equation. my parents were a mess, drugs, alcohol, my mother was victim of family incest by her father, brothers and an uncle. she was not the only female in her family to fall victim to this. she was 16.

you are right on some accounts, i had no idea the shady lies and tactics that have been used in the adoption industry. yes i said industry, people like you have opened my eyes to a horrible side of something that was instituted to be wonderful. and that is sick and wrong. but sometimes things are what they are, a raging mess. that is where i came from. i was born into complete caos, and raised in stability. my birthmother was smart enough to choose to give me to someone that could take better care of me. she was not forced. my father was fresh out of vietnam, he was dealing with what he had seen and done, a child would not have been a welcome addition at that time.

now they are wonderful, stable people. we have a great relationship and i thank them whenever i can for the life they allowed me to have. call me whatever name you want, but is my experience and my opinion. you obviously have differing. which is fine. you are just as entitled to yours as i am mine and i have to say i respect your conviction. you stand by your guns no matter what, that takes nerve.

just remember in your pursuit for fairness, there are some of us that adoption has been more than fair too. i would never have wanted to grow up in the mess that i was born to, but i love having the chance to know them now. some cases are utterly immoral, but some are done for the right reasons and done the right way. dont forget about us.

good luck in your plight to even out the playing field. i hope one day you do make a difference.

Answer 5

Do you think there is no trauma involved for a child raised by one parent but not the other? A parent on drugs maybe? a parent who didn;t want to be a parent in the first place? SAying, oh you just want your child to have lots of money is a stupid myth. They want to give them a childhood that they, the birth parent(s) can not provide for them.

Answer 6

We have two adopted children

Their mother did cocaine and other drugs while pregnant and both boys tested positive when born.  The boys were removed from their mother for the drug use.  She frequently missed meetings with her case worker and with volunteers involved with the case; you should know that they were trying to help her keep her children, not take them away.  She refused to get regular drug tests or show she was otherwise becoming better equipt to care for her children.  

The younger one has never lived with their mother.  He spent 3 months in the NICU getting over the drugs.  He then spent months in a special foster home for high demand children.  He was consistently 3+ months behind in his development due to the drugs.   His mother had weekly scheduled visits with him, half of which she missed.  

The older boy lived with her and other family members before we got him at age 3.  Due to neglect, and possible abuse, he was delayed 9-12 months in speech and general development.  He could barely talk, violent tendencies, and would often stare off into space.  He would also tantrum for HOURS.  To top this off, he had several untreated medical problems and severe bottle-mouth.

Yes, we are 'better off' financially than his mother.  However, we are hardly rich (and when we had our own natural children we were quite poor).  The reason the boys are better off with us has nothing to do with money.  In just a few months in our home the boys have both caught up significantly in their development and the 'behavioral' problems have all but disappeared.  We are not perfect parents, but I know they will have  a much better life in our home.

Your claim that adoptive parents are just rich people looking to play 'parents' is a complete falsehood.

Edit - In response to your critisim of my answer...

By using the word "Securing" in your final statement you imply that you view adoption as a business transaction for the adoptive parents.  I.e., without true emotional justification.  Based on your choice of words, my use of the term "play" in my answer is reasonable, because it also implies a lack of true emotion.  

If that was not your intent, then you should have chosen a different word then "Securing".

Resorting to this sort of meta-criticism and to name calling suggests that you cannot retort anything I actually said.

Answer 7

Happy Adoptee:

First, hon, it's "you're" not "your".  That might be helpful, since you're a high school counseler, and all.

So, you're happy!  Great!  Have you ever searched for your biological family?  Doesn't sound like it...

On that alone, I discredit your 'happiness', which is sorta like someone who says they're 'happy' with the anti-depressants they take without ever uncovering the issue.  You wear your happiness (and your 'identity' here) like rose-colored glasses.

Have you ever taken a history class?  How can you sit there, and not wonder HOW you fit in?  If you live in the US, don't you want to know when your people came here?  Or where your ancestors originated from?  

I remember when I saw "Braveheart" after I knew I was half Scottish.  Wow!  Those are my people!  (Well, they're really actors...)

Please, don't feel sorry for adoptees who have searched & found (no matter the outcome) we have conquered our pasts.  We have crossed the River Styx.  We are our own heros!  What we have, we have earned.

Hope you have the courage to look someday, too.

Answer 8

to happy_adoptee,

this is great for you that you had a wonderful adoptive family.. I never would try to take that from you but the fact that you had a great life with them does not make it so for the vast majority of the adoptees that are hear by the looks of it!!

while myself i would have rather termination of the pregnancy for myself, i would not rule out adoption in the hole but if you take away the regulators then i would say it is trading the babies for cash, just a loop hole around the no child selling really.

while it is true I hate the adoption system as it stands now, I do not wish to though it out just make it better and maybe safer for all (But mostly the CHILD and for that i will not APOLOGISE EVER)

the Government need to be more in this system and they need to stay in the child's life after the court has singed of on it as we adoptees are at high risk of abuse, if it was only the abandonment issue's that most of us go though then i would not have a issue with it at all as after all we all need something to have a shrink about from child hood way not that!

but abuse is something that i find intolerable and that is the hole thing with adoption there is just fare too many of us adoptees getting abused by the adoptive parents and that is just not right at all..

for the question Pro-Adoption zealots: we all find this issue very close to owe harts and as such we are mostly i think a zealot one way or the other weather it is pro or anti. does not make ether side wrong or wright it is just that way.. why do we not try something new like a compromise?

compromise in that not aborting children and not taking out the government from the hole thing after all there needs to be some system in it but i feel it just need to be more focused around the child's rights to be safe.

While I personally do not care if i was to offended a childless couple if i though it was the right thing by the child and it was going to stop them from being able to abuse a child that is not my concern my only concern is the child's safety no one or thing alts is going to be entering the equation but i think that is not the cases at all due to the fact that there is to much money in this system now

Answer 9

Well, I'm not a zealot, and I wish adoption didn't have to happen, but I am an adoptive mother.

1.  adoption is regulated, not that the regulations are always ones that are ethical.  Yes, the fact that there is so much money in adoption leads to unethical things happening.  I chose an adoption program where I felt very confident that my money was not contributing to the coersion of first families.

2.  Yes, I think that  loosing a biological mother is traumatic, and I wish it was a trauma my daughter never had to experience, but I didn't cause that trauma.  I am quite knowledgable about attachment.  Why would you assume attachment is not important to adoptive parents?  It is usually a primary concern.  If you were to go to adoptive parent boards, much of the discussion is usually about attachment.  With the help of attachment parenting techniques, my daughter is securely attached to me.  (This does not mean that I expect her to have no issues with loss, identity, etc.)

3.  Of course infants shouldn't simply be separated from their biological families and given to the richest family possible.  My child was not "given" to me because we were richer than her birth family.  It was a whole lot more complicated than that, and it usually is.  I am not an adoption agency, nor did I use an adoption agency, that counsels women that financial difficulty is a good enough reason not to raise a child.  However, combined with many other social stresses, financial difficulty is often part of the complex reasons for relinquishment.  That doesn't equal baby trafficking.

You know, some issues are black and white, some aren't.  I think it should be required that women who seek help for a crisis pregnancy get counseling OUTSIDE of an adoption agency.  I think that adoptive parents paying medical expenses, etc. is coersive.  However, reasons for placing a child for adoption are usually complicated and adoptive parents couldn't change most of that if they tried.  I share you concern for adoption ethics, but your automatic dismissal of the value of adoptive parents doesn't help your cause.

Answer 10

First of all, there are laws in every state that regulate adoption.  Yes, some states have better laws than others.  If adoptions are done unethically, it is most likely the individual agency's fault rather than the legislation.  There are always more reputable agencies than others.

Adoption is not all about the financial aspect, although that generally does come in to play.  Relinquishment/termination of rights can be voluntary (situations where the birth mother decides that adoption is the best option for her child) or involuntarily (where the state child services takes the child away because of abuse, neglect, drug use, etc.)  

The state will not take children away just for financial reasons.  As far as voluntary relinquishment of parental rights, the birh mother herself chooses to terminate her rights and place her child with a family of her choosing.  Reasons vary from case to case, but the overall factor is not just financial.  Many birth mothers want their child to be raised in a family with two parents who are married and can provide financial, emotional, and social stability for the child, not a rich, luxurious, extravagant lifestyle.  If a woman is not ready to be a parent, the child deserves to be raised by someone who is.  

Yes, separation from a birth mother can cause trauma, but so can a child being raised in an abusive, neglectful, povertly-level lifestyle.  Isn't it better for a child to be raised by an adoptive couple that really "wanted" them than by a birthmother who didn't?  

There are definitely two extremes here and usually, neither is right.  Not all agencies make a ton of money off of adoption.  People sho say this obviously have no idea of all the expenses involved, such as a social worker's wages for the time taken to complete a homestudy, background checks, required training sessions to be provided to prospective adoptive parents, and the biggest expense of all - attorney's fees/legal fees (court costs, filing costs, etc.) all of which are there to make sure the adoptions are done legally and ethically.  

The adoption agency my husband and I went through to adopt our beautiful daughter is subsidized by our church and our church paid more money toward our adoption/legal fees that we did.  The agency didn't make a dime off of our placement!  Unfortunately, all agencies are not set up the same way.  There are a lot of non-profit agencies out there who are trying to help children have families where they are wanted, loved, cared for and provided for adequately.  

You DO NOT have to be rich to adopt!  Actually, adoption costs relatively the same amount as one cycle of an IVF treatment.  There are grants and loans available to people who want to adopt and need financial assistance to be able to come up with the fees.  

I'm sorry for the adoptees out there who have abandonment issues.  That is truly sad.  The truth of the matter is, though, that they have no clue what their life would have been like if they hadn't been adopted because they didn't live that life.  I think they like to have pretend fairytale images of what it would've been like to be "kept" by their birth mother, when in reality their lives would very likely have been quite miserable.  I think some people will just be miserable no matter what.

For those of you who bash on us adoptive parents because of your own adoptee issues, try dealing with infertility!!   You have no idea the h**l that it is until you have been there yourself.  THere are two sides to every story, and it's not always the same side that is right or wrong.

Answer 11

I am a an adoptive child, and am perfectly happy. My mum was sixteen when she had me in Russia. I know I would probially be starving or dead or worse if she had kept me, and I am perfectly happy.

I was seperated from my mother right after birth. From what I know, she only held me once, and as for my dad, he knew I existed, but never met me (I only recently met his son).

Yes, giving a child to a family who can raise them in security and happiness is an amazing solution- my family could barely take care of themselves, let alone me. And not finatually secure, but a family that could raise me and care for me without me starving to death

I am perfectly happy in the family I am in (six adopted kids, two bio kids, and two parents) and would like to ask you to think beofre you post something like this.

Answer 12

I think people need to be encouraged to adopt older children instead of just babies. Or if they adopt a baby then they should be required by law both state and federal to adopt an older child as well. It will get one of those kids out of the system.

I think that if a child is taken from his or her own mother at birth that there is no trauma.  The infant after all doesn't know it's real parents and doesn't know that it's mother didn't have the audacity to use protection and keep her legs shut if she didn't want to get pregnant in the first place. Adoption is a lot better then abortion. At least adoption is giving the child a life.

Yes it is.  At least with a financially secure family the infant or child can grow up having everything it needs(food, clothing, shelter, medical bills paid for, and an education) whereas if it were left with it's real parents who were poor it would spend most of it's time being on the streets and hungry because it's parents didn't have enough money to feed it and it would be probably be illiterate if if didn't get the chance to go to school.

No but I don't have kids.  And my husband and I won't be living in this country raising our kids God willing. We'll be home in his country where there are no health insurance, education and medical needs are paid for by the Government, no car insurance and the living is free to cheap.

Your giving the children to a family that can meet and provide all the child's needs. Whereas in child trafficking you are selling those kids to be s*x slaves, prostitutes or regular slaves for the rich people who are too lazy to clean their own house.  Yes there are slaves in the USA. Rich people buy people from Africa and Indonesia and then beat them and steal their passports so they can't go home.

Answer 13

It's not all an industry. I can't have children of my own. My husband and I have adopted two children, whose birth parents gave them up right after birth. Guess what...we didn't pay a single penny. It's not all a business. When you go through a social worker or social services its entirely free. This is not child trafficking at all. My children were both born to mothers in the very same city as we live in and I didn't pay for them....how is this trafficking?

Answer 14

Do I believe adoption should be an unregulated 1.4 billion dollar industry?  No, I believe in adoption reform... I think there are a lot of issues in the adoption system that need to be worked out, one being the "middle man" costs.  For example, if I am paying $17 000.00 to adopt a child from a Russian orphanage, I want the majority of that money to go to the orphanage, not the agencies (although I realize costs are associated with translators and the legal parts of the process a well).

Do I really think there is no trauma when a child is separated from his or her mother?  No, I completely believe there is trauma, even if the adoption takes place from birth.  That being said, this isn't a trauma that cannot be over come.  Some people may need counseling for their abandonment issues, but most people just need acknowledgment of them and parents who are informed about the fact that their children may either a) have difficulty bonding or b) be extremely clingy because of their abandonment issues.

Is giving an infant to a financially more secure family any reason to separate a child for life from their own family? If so should I look for a richer family to take the children I have?  Well first of all, there is a difference between a family that is so poor that they cannot feed/clothe/give shelter to their children and a family that can do all that.  If it is between being able to feed/clothe/give shelter to my children, then yes, I do believe that giving them to a wealthier family would be a responsible thing to do.  I don't have children, so I can't answer the latter part of your question.  As any parent would agree, meeting the needs of your children is what is important... past that (the wants), isn't really an issue.  

How is securing children for wealthier families any different than child trafficking?  Child slavery/trafficking is an illegal process where children are sold for labor and or s*x.  I think that is definately different providing a home for a child that is loving and the main goal is stability for the child.  Granted, is it fair that wealthier families often get the first say?  No, but hopefully adoption reform will eventually change that.

Am I a Pro-adoption zealot?  I guess so... I am an adoptee who had a wonderful experience.  My birth mom didn't want to have children because she wasn't financially where she wanted to be at the time, and she wasn't in a serious relationship at the time she discovered she was pregnant.  She did have a college degree, and from the information we were given it sounds like she had decided on adoption long before she met with an agency.  So this wasn't some uninformed teenage mom on drugs.  

Do I think all adoption is good... no, and there have been plenty of bad experiences.  Especially due to ignorance (such as parents believing it should be kept a secret until the child is 18).    But I think a lot of times the alternative is not a good one, and adoption is a gift for everyone in the situation, although it may be difficult.

Answer 15

My dad's mom had him when she was 17.  She decided to keep him.  She always blamed him for being born.  He was neglected constantly.  His mom had boyfriend, after boyfriend, and 7 boys from 5 different fathers. He had several abusive step-fathers, and his mom did nothing to stop them.  He went without a lot of things growing up.  

I think if he'd been adopted his life could have been better.  Things can go wrong with adopted families, but living with a mom who doesn't love you, and blames you for being born is something that can really mess a person up.

Answer 16

Unregulated?  My entire family (including the dog, I kid you not) needed medical clearance and law enforcement clearance from the state police and from the FBI.  We hired two lawyers to help us navigate the legal system, including three court appearances.

Answer 17

I won't argue that adoption as an industry could benefit from tighter regulations. No doubt.

But how can you turn a blind eye to all the people in the world who have benefitted tremendously from adoption?

I was an adopted child, and I am happy like many other adopted children are. It's isn't always some big traumatic experience. I bonded to my adopted parents just fine, thanks. Sure, I've had to work through some issues and I've wondered about my birth family and their reasons for their choice, but it hasn't left me a damaged human being. I would have been far more damaged of a human being if I had not been adopted, forced to have lived with my birth mother in an abusive, alcoholic household (I met my birth mother and know this is how my life would have been had she kept me). It's not all about money, sweetheart. It's about living conditions. It's about health. It's about having a child in a safe, nurturing environment, one that has opportunities available for the child's future.

What child does not have issues, I'd like to ask? Are non-adopted children never traumatized by anything in their life? Do they never suffer from attachment issues? Seems to me your logic is flawed - if you force a woman to keep a child she is unprepared or unwilling to care for, aren't you potentially CREATING all these problems for this child? Seriously, how can you ignore that? Not all pregnant women can get their act together and be a mature, responsible parent. Some people simply cannot be parents (or be ready to in 9 months time), nor should they! Why would you wish a child stay in that kind of environment? What kind of person thinks like that?

I almost can't come into this forum anymore because I am positively astounded by the level of negativity that people have towards adoption here, especially the negativity shown towards adoptees such as myself who tell time and time again how adoption experiences don't have to be negative and how adoption is a beautiful thing.

Answer 18

I don't think I've ever heard of a child being pulled from their home and parents just because they weren't financially stable. If that were the case, practically nobody would have children!!

I assume most children up for adoption are there because it was the parents choice or there was some kind of abuse where the child had to be pulled from the home.

Answer 19

I don't think that adoption is unregulated. There are laws and statues in every state.  As for the cost other than attorenys (who are robbers no matter what they do ) no one gets rich off of adoption.  You need home studies to make sure the family is fit and you have to pay the soical worker to do it.  You need back ground checks etc which the adoptive parents have to pay for.  There are court cost to make sure that it is done legaly and we are not just snatching peoples kids.

I do believe there is trauma for  child to be sperated from their mother.  However not every mother is qualified or wants to be a mother.  (my wife and are planning to foster to adopt we will get a child that was abused and or neglected by their mom and or dad.  Is that a good environment for them to stay in)

We are not rich but we will be able to provide better for the child than a mother who was not feeding their child or beating them half to death.   Children are not spearted because families are poor and women choose to give their children up for a myriad of reasons

And for the reasons above this is not trafficking