g*y marriage and freedom of religion. I need some help, please.?

Question

If this passes, then: 1.Pastors. preachers, clergy who would choose to see marriage as between man and woman lose their license to marry people or will be sued (there are several lawsuits in place in CA already). 2. Sexual awareness about g*y lifestyle will be mandatory education, beginning in Kindergarten. 3. Churches that don't marry g*y couples will lose their tax exempt status and be paying property taxes on every building or property they own. 4. If anyone, and yes, I mean anyone, turns down a marriage proposal from someone of the same gender, then they can be sued for discrimination.

I used to be of the camp, "they're not hurting anyone, let them do what they want", but this issue, seems to REALLY violate some basic privileges we all enjoy. What do you think?

Answer 1

giving people the rights they deserve WILL step on a couple of bigots' shoes...that's not a huge price at all.  

Answer 2

You're repeating the empty talking points from the fearmongering right -- and you're doing yourself a great disservice (i.e., you're coming across as an extremely ignorant homophobe, regardless of how much you rely on the old chesnut, "But some of my best friends are g*y...!") to believe this garbage without looking at the facts yourself.

Every last point you cite is a lie -- and #4 is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard (otherwise, I could sue every man who's every asked me to marry him, because, after all, opposite-s*x marriage is legal... right?).

Educate yourself here -- and READ the links:

http://dailymendacity.blogspot.com/2008/...

http://news.lavenderliberal.com/2008/08/...

http://www.tips-q.com/content/those-six-...

http://earthlingblues.wordpress.com/2008...

If you need more, say the word.

P.S. Anyone who votes my answer down is choosing to remain ignorant -- and choosing to propagate these lies. If you have the courage to face the truth, you'll admit it: The anti-equality crusaders are lying, period.

Answer 3

I hadn't heard a few of these things before.  I don't really know what to think of all that.  I call shinanigans (or however you spell it) on the thing about accepting marriage proposals, though.  That's just dumb and there's absolutely no way anyone could actually enforce that.

Answer 4

Not true.

1.  Nobody is talking about forcing the clergy to marry homosexuals.  You can have a civil ceremony, or there are already many churches who willingly perform g*y marriages.  

2.  I think this education is actually a very good idea.

3.  Not true.

4.  You're kidding, right?

You are anti-g*y.  You are also lying.

Answer 5

Complete and utter BS.  You're lying, lying, lying.  Read the truth below.

http://news.lavenderliberal.com/2008/08/...

Answer 6

First, please cite some sources.

Second, people's Constitutional rights come *before* the right to discriminate.  You think a church that doesn't allow blacks as members should have a tax-exempt status?

Answer 7

Lying for Jesus?

Answer 8

I don't think all of that is true. Not ALL churches would have to marry g*y people and I think you are mistaken if you think g*y people would be flocking to churches in the first place.

If you don't think g*y people deserve equal rights, that's kind of your problem. Seeing as they are people, they do.  

Answer 9

Sadly, this is the natural result of the "anti-discrimination" legislation roaring accross this country.  As g**s gain these rights, religous folks lose the right to freely exercise their religious beliefs.  Hey wait a minute, that phrase sounds familiar (free exercise of religion).  Oh, that's just a part of the constitution which has been forgotten.  You watch and see, soon it will be hate speech for a pastor or rabbi or priest to read many verses from the Bible.

So much for freedom of religion.

Once we defeated communism,  we began to become more like them.

Answer 10

are you effin kidding me?  this is a joke right?  my sister is a L*****n.  to deny her the american dream is unconstitutional.  before i answer this retarded question of yours, post your links and your research that backs your claims.  i don't want any links to christian propaganda websites either.  i want to see credible sources.  

you want to keep your privleges but are totally fine with denying rights.  this is a secular country that follows the constitution whether you like it or not.  that document sees no color, creed, race, gender, sexual oriantation, or economic status.  it protects both your rights and ours.  can you say the same for the book you follow?  

EDIT: just read your link.  let's go by your points.

1. if you were about to get married but a g*y minister refused to marry you because you were straight, would you (A) be offended because you were denied to be married for being who you are?  what if that was the church you have gone to since you were a child or that's where your parents got married?  in that article you linked, that was discrimination.  it's no different from racial segregation.  that chuch broke the law of that state.  you think discrimination and prejudice get a pass because it happens to wear ornate robes and hides behind a bronze age book of myths.

2. i don't know where the eff your kids go to school.  sexual education is only by parental consent.  i gave my consent with no hesitation.  why would i deny my daughter the education of the natual human condition.  it's not bad or good.  it just IS.  

3. d**n right they should pay taxes.  

4. are you for real?  this is so moronic i can't even begin.  let me ask you this....

Will you marry me?      ..........      No?    .............     I now have legal grounds to sue you?   W T F?!

Answer 11

Those butt pirates will do anything.

Answer 12

1. im fine with that

2. wtf?!?!! wait do you mean telling kindergardners about g*y people?

if you do then yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if i knew what being g*y was in kindergarden i wouldnt have been so confused my entire life.

3. discrimination is wrong

4. well how would you feel if you're getting married but someone  flat out refuses to

Answer 13

And the problem is?  As I see it, preachers/pastors/televangelists should lose their licenses and go to jail not because of the "g*y/L*****n agendy" but because of lying, cheating and stealing from the gullible

Answer 14

Linkage to the bill/proposal, please?

It seems a bit outlandish that something with all those points is being considered.  They barely teach kids about heterosexual relationships, why stop being afraid of teaching s*x/sexuality now?

Answer 15

I don't know who gave you these ideas, but the same thing was probably said when the Supreme Court struck down anti-miscegenation laws.  Did pastors lose their licenses for refusing to marry whites and blacks?  Did sexual education add mixed race marriages?  Did churches who refused to marry whites and blacks lose their tax exempt status?  Did any white or black who turned down a proposal from the opposite race get sued?  Did anyone ever get sued for turning down a marriage proposal?  

These are the same scare tactics that were used back then, and nothing's changed.

Answer 16

Can you provide sources to back up these allegations?

I'll wait.

EDIT- The only link you provided is about a couple suing because they couldn't be married at an outdoor pavilion owned by a church- a pavilion that the church has rented out to other couples for weddings not performed by the church.

"Bernstein said that in the past, the pavilion has been used for civil wedding ceremonies as well as for people of all faiths to get married."

So I will ask you one more time for sources to back up the allegations that several lawsuits against pastors and priests are in place in California, sexual education will be mandatory in kindergarten, churches will lose their tax exempt status or people will be sued for turning down a same s*x marriage proposal.

Answer 17

I think you are misinformed on some of your concerns.  We have separation of church and state for a reason.  The government cannot force churches to marry homosexuals anymore than they can force them to ordain them as pastors or priests.  I do not see any reason it should cause them to lose their tax exempt status either.

The inculcation of homosexual practice as normal is already being done in public schools in different parts of the country and that is because it receives its money from the federal government.  California and New York are two that I know of.  I don't know what you can do about that except hope that someone gets the voucher system passed so that we can all choose the best education for our children instead of the national daycare that passes for school now.  

Answer 18

What privileges? The privilege to deny homosexuals the right to marriage?

Answer 19

Mostly answering the other commenter's comments but:

“The inculcation of homosexual practice as normal is already being done in public schools in different parts of the country and that is because it receives its money from the federal government. California and New York are two that I know of.”

I am 21 living in California and I barely had any s*x-ed let alone any homosexual s*x-ed (I had none). Its mostly how it was in the 50’s like my dad said… gotta find things out for yourself.

“As g**s gain these rights, religious folks lose the right to freely exercise their religious beliefs.”

No. They can get married, yes but your church doesn’t have to marry them. Instead you are barring them from getting married at all. How does someone TOTALLY UNRELATED to you getting married impair on your beliefs? If you say its infringing on your right to your religion because it’s “not right” and not what “God ordained” then you are a hypocrite! If that were true, then all you Christians who eat pork are infringing on Muslim and Jewish beliefs. Also all you Christians, Muslims and Jews who crush/kill spiders and insects in your homes would be infringing on Buddhist and Daoist beliefs (and don’t deny their existence here… I have tons of Muslim, Buddhist, etc friends). To them, it just ain’t right and you’re still doing it. Mm mm mm…  

Answer 20

when you really think about it, g**s have no less rights than anyone else, they can marry whomever they choose, the same way that heteros can, i think they push the envelope whenever they can to let people know that they're still around, and when they don't get their way they scream discrimination

Answer 21

It's getting harder to have freedom, isn't it?!  Someone will always be offended by someone else.  Until we get to the point where we can say "Get over it!", we will all end up as losers.  If there is really separation of church and state, then these lawsuits should be thrown out.  Churches are not denying anyone their civil rights because there are other places to go that will provide the service including some churches!  I don't think religion should be the excuse used to not allow people to get married though.  We are not suppose to force our beliefs on anyone, and other groups shouldn't either.

Answer 22

NOW tell me there is no g*y agenda!

Understand that while gas may marry, they will only get what they want. They will not get what they need. They are fooling themselves.