Global warming - CO2 vs solor?

Question

The earth is warming up, apparently its down to humans.

I haven't seen Al Gores film but I'm sure it will convince me its down to humans... as I'm a person easily convinced only to backtrack once I've seen the other side of the argument... like solor sunspots etc.

I also find it strange that this 'global warming' phenomenon is also happening in Mars and Neptunes... as well as all the other planets and dwarf planets in our solor system.

Considering these planets are in our solor system, I think the key word is 'solor.'

But all I want is the truth. If CO2 is most probably not the reason for our warming, then whats the point in the governments trying to scare us with this tactic? If its better to be safe than to be sorry, then why dont they just say so?

Answer 1

If governments were trying to scare you they'd  be trying to make the public more aware of the facts.  They'd be forced to address this with more than token measures.  What we're doing now is sort of an international "toe-wetting" before diving into more stringent policy changes and solutions. Some countries are stepping up and confronting the issues.  Others are still in the talking stages.  Most are somewhere in between.

No doubt at all that this is a calamity in the making, that we could just say we're scared and hide under the sheets.  Many do, especially on this site.  But research at the university level alone is promising.  National programs are in place, and international efforts underway.  

Empower yourself by arming yourself with facts.

Answer 2

http://environment.newscientist.com/clim...

this may convince you otherwise.

Answer 3

That all the planets are warming is a myth...

http://environment.newscientist.com/chan...

"There have been claims that warming on Mars and Pluto are proof that the recent warming on Earth is caused by an increase in solar activity, and not by greenhouses gases. But we can say with certainty that, even if Mars, Pluto or any other planets have warmed in recent years, it is not due to changes in solar activity.

The Sun's energy output has not increased since direct measurements began in 1978 (see Climate myth special: Global warming is down to the Sun, not humans). If increased solar output really was responsible, we should be seeing warming on all the planets and their moons, not just Mars and Pluto.

Our solar system has eight planets, three dwarf planets and quite a few moons with at least a rudimentary atmosphere, and thus a climate of sorts. Their climates will be affected by local factors such as orbital variations, changes in reflectance (albedo) and even volcanic eruptions, so it would not be surprising if several planets and moons turn out to be warming at any one time.

However, given that a year on Mars is nearly two Earth years long, and that a year on Pluto lasts for 248 Earth years, it is rather early to start drawing conclusions about long-term climate trends on the outer bodies of the Solar System.

What do we know? Images of Mars suggest that between 1999 and 2005, some of the frozen carbon dioxide that covers the south polar region turned into gas (sublimated). This may be the result of the whole planet warming (see Mars images hint at recent climate swings).

Dwarf planet

One theory is that winds have recently swept some areas of Mars clean of dust, darkening the surface, warming the Red Planet and leading to further increases in windiness – a positive feedback effect (see Dust blamed for warming on Mars).

There is a great deal of uncertainty, though. The warming could be a regional effect. And recent results from the thermal imaging system on the Mars Odyssey probe suggest that the polar cap is not shrinking at all, but varies greatly from one Martian year to the next, although the details have yet to be published.

Observations of the thickness of Pluto's atmosphere in 2002 suggested the dwarf planet was warming even as its orbit took it further from the Sun. The finding baffled astronomers at the time, and the cause has yet to be determined.

It has since been suggested that this is due to a greenhouse effect: as it gets closer to the sun Pluto may warm enough for some of the methane ice on its surface to turn into a gas. This would cause further warming, which would continue for a while even after Pluto's orbit starts to take it away from the Sun."

Governments are afraid to say so, because they want to get re-elected. They understand that people are resistant to sacrifice and change and are only happy when the politician tells them what they want to hear, which is giving them a magic (doesn't exist but they'll believe it anyway) solution without the sacrifice.

EDIT - While Cliff may not be looking to win popularity contests, he's also not looking to post data links.

Answer 4

Scientists don't like to use the word "proof" because everything in science is subject to revision as new data comes in. But the case for human-caused global warming is about as strong as it gets.

1. If the Sun is causing the current warmth, then we're getting more energy, and the whole atmosphere should be getting warmer. If it's greenhouse, then we're getting the same amount of energy, but it's being distributed differently: more heat is trapped at the surface, and less heat is escaping to the stratosphere. So if it's the Sun, the stratosphere should be warming, but if it's greenhouse, the stratosphere should be cooling.

In fact, the stratosphere has been on a long-term cooling trend ever since we've been keeping radiosonde balloon records in the 1950's. Here's the data:

http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadat/images...

http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadat/hadat2...

http://cdiac.ornl.gov/trends/temp/sterin...

2. If it's the Sun, we're getting more energy during the day, and daytime temperatures should be rising fastest. But if it's greenhouse, we're losing less heat at night, and nighttime temperatures should be rising fastest. So if it's the sun, the difference between day and night temperatures should be increasing, but if it's greenhouse, the day-night difference should be decreasing.

In fact, the daily temperature range has been decreasing throughout the 20th century. Here's the science:

http://ams.allenpress.com/perlserv/?requ...

http://ams.allenpress.com/perlserv/?requ...

http://www.bom.gov.au/bmrc/clfor/cfstaff...

3. Total solar irradiance has been measured by satellite since 1978, and during that time it has shown the normal 11-year cycle, but no long-term trend. Here's the data:

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/stp/SOLAR/solar...

4. Scientists have looked closely at the solar hypothesis and have strongly refuted it. Here's the peer-reviewed science:

http://www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/media/pro...

http://www.mpa-garching.mpg.de/mpa/publi...

5. CO2 levels in the air were stable for 10,000 years prior to the industrial revolution, at about 280 parts per million by volume (ppmv). Since 1800, CO2 levels have risen 38%, to 384 ppmv, with no end in sight. Here's the modern data...

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends...

... and the ice core data ...

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/icecore/a...

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/icecore/a...

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/icecore/a...

... and a graph showing how it fits together:

http://www.columbusnavigation.com/co2.ht...

6. We know that the excess CO2 in the air is caused by burning of fossil fuels, for two reasons. First, because the sharp rise in atmospheric CO2 started exactly when humans began burning coal in large quantities (see the graph linked above); and second, because when we do isotopic analysis of the CO2 we find increasing amounts of "old" carbon combined with "young" oxygen. Here are the peer-reviewed papers:

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1984JGR......

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/mk...

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/ab...

Oh, and one more little fact: Uranus is cooling.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob...

So what's left to prove?

Answer 5

wealth redistribution ...

Answer 6

See the first link below.  This site has some interesting alternative views on global warming.  When on this site, keep an open mind.

Al Gore is a hypocrite.  He travels around in a huge private jet.  He uses a gas guzzling SUV.  His house consumes 20 times the energy of a normal household.  I guess being green is only for the common folk.  See the second link

Answer 7

I have seen the Inconvenient Truth and it convinced me that we need to work this problem and fast.

As for the solar sunspots causing global warming I'd trust what Bob has posted. He's always been spot on.

Thanks Bob for being a lifesaver in this forum. Your a shining ray breaking out from the pact of the many trolls that have seemed to have all but taken over this section.

Answer 8

CO2 is not the problem . The plants have taken care of 99% and after they grow larger they will take care of that. Plants is man's opposite and what we give off they need to live. CO2 is how nature recycles our oxygen ,but it is also recycling fossil fuels at the same time. So the more CO2 the plants have will produce more oil for our future.

Answer 9

100% solar. We have nothing to do with it and only liberals and conservatives that were deceived will tell you it is caused by c02

Answer 10

Money.  Everyone has to buy "green" now to save the planet. So now we have to go out and buy more stuff to save the planet. I just read that the earth has cooled down to where it was in 1930 and it is solar related because the sunspot activity hasn't resumed.

Answer 11

Just for the record, it's "solar".

The current warming is 80-90% due to human CO2 emissions.  Here is an explanation of how we know this:

http://greenhome.huddler.com/wiki/global...

As for warming on other planets, see Myth #4 here:

http://greenhome.huddler.com/wiki/global...

Answer 12

Please check this http://savetheglobefromwarming.blogspot....

Answer 13

Climate change is a money and power grab scheme by the bottom feeder politicians and power brokers. It's nothing to do with ecology and everything to do with money.

Con artists like Gore have enriched themselves on this issue, taking home Oscars, Nobel Prizes and millions of dollars. Meanwhile, evangelical leaders are setting up their flocks for extreme fleecing by leftist politicos like Barack Obama, who will appeal for Christian votes by talking in glowing, biblical-sounding terms about "being good stewards of God's creation."

Here is truth about global warming:

Global warming is one-half of the climatic cycle of warming and cooling.

The earth's mean temperature cycles around the freezing point of water.

This is a completely natural phenomenon which has been going on since

there has been water on this planet. It is driven by the sun.

Our planet is currently emerging from a 'mini ice age', so is

becoming warmer and may return to the point at which Greenland is again usable as farmland (as it has been in recorded history).

As the polar ice caps decrease, the amount of fresh water mixing with oceanic water will slow and perhaps stop the thermohaline cycle (the oceanic heat 'conveyor' which, among other things, keeps the U.S. east coast warm).

When this cycle slows/stops, the planet will cool again and begin to enter another ice age.

It's been happening for millions of years.

The worrisome and brutal predictions of drastic climate effects are based on computer models, NOT CLIMATE HISTORY.

As you probably know, computer models are not the most reliable of sources, especially when used to 'predict' chaotic systems such as weather.

Global warming/cooling, AKA 'climate change':

Humans did not cause it.

Humans cannot stop it.

Answer 14

Here is a link to a site that has ALL the info on the "other" causes of global warming.  From sunspots,to cow farts, it has them all!

http://environment.newscientist.com/chan...

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007...

Answer 15

The earth's climate is driven mainly by solar activity and earth's orbit around the sun.

No proper scientist will disagree with this simple fact.

CO2 levels have been much higher in the past but never caused previous periods of 'Global Warming', but occurred after those periods of time.

Even if CO2 were a so-called 'Greenhouse Gas' (which it is NOT especially at the extremely low levels in the atmosphere), mankind's contribution is so minute, that it is not even detectable with the most sensitive scientific measuring equipment.

Although I know that 'The Inconvenient Truth'  had anything but TRUTH, I would encourage you to watch it if you can.

If you have any understanding of basic science, you will be able to judge for yourself.

The reason the governments are moving the direction they are, is because they are not listening to scientists, but special interest groups that are only there to rip all of us off.

Politicians are easily swayed because they generally are unable to think for themselves, and will do whatever it takes to help secure their pathetic positions.

Science does not lie, nor can it distort the truth.

The more you understand about science, the better equipped you will be to sort through the BS and landmines.

You will constantly run into people like Bob who claim to be scientists, yet are incapable of basic scientific reasoning or using scientific methodology.

Arrogance and stupidity is not what proper science is about.

While I can already feel the 'thumbs down' coming on, I'm not interested in winning some sort of popularity contest!

I just want science to have a voice for a change, not BS!

Answer 16

CO2.

CO2 has known physical properties that cause excess CO2 to warm the Earth.  When you do the calculations, the numbers work.

Not all the planets are warming, just a few for different reasons.  On Mars, it's giant dust storms.  Proof.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/researc...

The numbers for solar DON'T WORK.  Solar radiation striking the Earth has been decreasing slightly.  Proof.

"Recent oppositely directed trends in solar

climate forcings and the global mean surface

air temperature", Lockwood and Frolich (2007), Proc. R. Soc. A

doi:10.1098/rspa.2007.1880

http://www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/media/pro...

News article at:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6290228.st...

There are reasons every major scientific organization says this is mostly due to CO2.  

The National Academy of Sciences, the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the American Institute of Physics, the American Chemical Society, the American Geophysical Union, the American Meteorological Association, etc.

It's scientific fact.

By the way, the site listed above is run by right wing politics guys, the "Competitive Enterprise Institute", not scientists.