Hand of the day XI?

Question

it's a $1-2 cash game once again, 8-handed with $170 effective stacks...the utg player, who is very good, very creative, and oftentimes tricky, limps in, and does utg+1...you are next to act with Q-Q, and knowing that there are several aggressive players behind you, you limp hoping someone will raise it up...now the player in the cutoff, who is pretty aggressive and likes dead money, raises it up to $30, a big raise for sure, and the button makes the call as well...now the utg player moves all-in, utg+1 folds, and now it's up to you...he has you covered, so it will cost you your entire stack, do you make the call?

note: please don't put down RAISE PREFLOP YOU MORON AND YOU WOULD HAVE AVOIDED ALL THIS!!! because this hand is hypothetical and to say what we should have done is getting away from the point

Answer 1

"RAISE PREFLOP YOU MORON AND YOU WOULD HAVE AVOIDED ALL THIS"

(is this note targeted towards me?)

Actually, not raising preflop saved you money. I just dont think you can call here. You have to assume 3 things when you call:

1. CO is raising to 30 with trash a huge portion of the time (90%).

2. Utg is willing to limp/reraise preflop with a suited connector type of hand or Axs (the only hands that you can beat). Does a good player even limp preflop with this type of hand in early position? I think most people fold those hands.

3. Utg feels button is weak and CO has an incredibly wide range.

One last thing. What is button's calling range on the button? It looks like AJs+, 99+. The problem is, is he capable of trapping the agressive CO with AA? If I was on the button, I would call with AA planning to go allin on the c-bet that CO will fire. Of course, Im not button. However, against an unknown AA has to be part of his range.

Other things to think about.

1. Your pot odds. You are getting like 1.1:1

2. The button. He has a decent to monster range.

There are too many things that you have to pray for if you wanna win this pot. Not worth it. Just fold.

To make the quiz better: Make utg+1 just call. Except for that, same situation.

Another good one: Put yourself in buttons spot after CO raises to 30 if you have TT.

Edit: revised it

Answer 2

According to most of the books (and yes I do read and sometimes even follow the advice in books) that last reraise means KK or AA.  It's a fold.  Of course it's much easier to say that in writing than if I'm actually in the situation, I'd like to think I can play as good as I can write about it.

And by the way.........

RAISE PREFLOP YOU MORON AND YOU WOULD HAVE AVOIDED ALL THIS!!!!

Answer 3

I'm going to have to fold. The cutoff could well be bluffing but the button called, he's not. utg should not be bluffing with four other players in the hand and one raising and one calling that. I gotta' go, hate it but I'm gone!

Answer 4

UTG could easily be putting on a squeeze here.  He knows CO is betting big just to take down the pot.  His all-in is going to be almost impossible for CO to call.

What has me troubled is D.  Why did he call, and will he fold?

My thought is that all 3 of you had the same read on CO.  His raise was too big to be strong; he was just trying to take the easy money.  D called because he has some sort of hand and has position on CO, but then UTG squeezed.

I think the range of hands for both UTG and D are fairly large, and CO can be discounted entirely.  There's almost no chance of his calling this all-in.  I don't believe D will call either, if we do first.  If he had AA or KK he would've raised the 30 ... too many players were still in the pot not to.

I'd call and I believe CO and D will both fold.  After they do, it's possible you're facing AK and a coinflip, and your pot odds make a coinflip look profitable.  It's remotely possible you're dominated by AA or KK, but I believe it's way more likely you're favored in the hand, against Ax or a pair.

--------------------------------------...

Note: "RAISE PREFLOP YOU MORON ...."

That's why I tried the 3-part hand experiment.  Everyone always wants to tell you how much better THEY would've played the hand before it gets to the ugly point.

Answer 5

No brainer. You are only out 2 dollars, fold, fold and then fold again.  A raise, and then a re-raise with Q/Q....well, look at them lovingly, give them a rain check and then say "adios mi mujeres" .  Even if you do have the best hand at the time, it just ain't the place to put all your lil ol clay discs in the middle of the table.  I am not going to go into all the reasons, what the book says, any of that....just remember the ol saying, "beware of the under the gun limper" especially if he is raised and re-raises.  While he might be a tricky player, and might be making a move, is it worth all 170 of your hard earned dollars to protect 2?  I say not dear fellow.  (I don't like the ladies too much anyhow, if I have them I generally loose, if I am against them, once again, I loose, I reckon it is the jink of having a few ex-wives.....)

Answer 6

I would fold.

The main reason is there are still 2 other players left to act. One of the 2 might also call or maybe pot commit the last guy and worse case they both call. So theres a good chance between the people you might be involved with that they have an Ace or a King at least. And the possibilty of the super worse case scenario of them having pocket Aces or Kings.

Pocket Queens is a great starting hand and that's it in this position. I wouldn't risk all my money on a chance play. I'd rather know where I stand.

It sounds to me like UTG doesn't want too see a flop. He's not trying to bait someone all in sitting on Aces. So I'd guess pocket Kings here or the slim chance of Queen's also. Maybe Jacks, but thats risky.

The button called the initial raise of 30 too. So this doesn't say a monster, it seems more like a big slick suited type hand. Theres only a few hands call worthy of a raise like that without a re raise. Maybe pocket Jacks.

The initial raise of $30 is the questionable guy. Raising to 15 times the blind is a signifigant raise. He wants too push anyone out without a hand and possibly build the pot up too. So my gut says Aces or Kings. He'd probably give a little sign when the guy pushed all in. If it's a monster, then he tries to stay like a statue. If its not that good, he probably ends up double checking his cards and possibly gives a slight head shake side to side like man I think I gotta lay this down look.

Any which way, I like the solid fold that possibly saves us $168 bucks. I love too see flops for the right price, and all in usually isn't it.

Answer 7

do you have more money left in your pocket?  If no i would probably have to fold

I'd put the CO on AJ or AT, the Button on AK-AJ, 88+, and the UTG on AK or TT+

it's a tough decision.  IF UTG doesnt reraise all in I probably instapush the raise and  button call

but with UTG pushing ...  I would lean towards folding