Hand of the day XIII?

Question

a bit of a different hand of the day this time, a situation that almost no one would put themselves in

$1-2 cash game with $350 effective stacks, and you have the image of a smart and very aggressive player...the utg player straddles for $4, and a middle player limps...you are in the big blind with J-6 of clubs, and knowing that this middle player is extremely loose and pretty bad overall, you raise it up to $20 to isolate...the straddler, a very loose gambling style player, makes the call, and the middle player calls also...the flop comes 3-3-2 rainbow, and you lead out a continuation bet of $28...the straddler calls, but the limper folds, and the turn is the Kd putting a backdoor flush draw out there...you check it over to the straddler, who fires for $72...you pretty much only have two options here, fold or go all in, do you make the bluff for all of your money here?(yes you have more money in case you need it)

Answer 1

i'd say fold it. even loose players catch cards.

Answer 2

"you are in the big blind with J-6 of clubs, and knowing that this middle player is extremely loose and pretty bad overall, you raise it up to $20 to isolate."

This is such great logic. You want to isolate a player with a hand that has no postflop value.

Actually you are completely stupid.  "You have the image of a smart and very aggressive player"... you forgot to add just kidding  after that sentence.

As you can see, I think preflop is BAD.

On the flop, the loose players are probaly going to call with Ax, 44, etc. So I would just give up against the two players.

However, since you did fire on the flop, you should fire on the turn. Its a great card where you can represent a real hand. Since you didnt do that, we are now in your spot.

Before I continue, could you please list pot sizes on the turn and effective stacks on the turn? Is the "very loose gambling style player" agressive?

Note: You didnt say that this was all hypothetical this time, so Im allowed to tell you how S****y you played this hand right? :P

Hey sabes, I would really appreciate if you didnt choose Best answer yet. Been really busy.

Edit: Just because you extended the question doesnt mean you wont pick best answer right away.

On the flop when he calls, his range is wiiiide so his call doesnt mean ****. However, after you check on the scarecard and he bets he is cleary defining his hand. Lets assume he doesnt float because he isnt agressive and doesnt seem that good. Now that we have narrowed his range down to a made hand (probaly  Kx) we have to ask ourselvs

1. Can we beat his hand?

2. Can we make him fold his better hand?

The answer to number one is easy. The answer to number 2 is slighty harder. Lets establish exactly what he has. If he had an A2 type of hand he would generally check that back on the turn. If he had Kx he would almost always bet. If he had trips he would bet around 30% of the time. His range is mainly solid hands and sometimes weak and monster hands. Can we make him fold the solid hand (Kx)? I say no. When you c/r allin you are repping trips. However, Im not that sure your oppenent is good enough to put you on hands.He seems kinda bad.  Secondly, he is loose and is going to stack off a lot lighter. Based on this logic, it seems you are throwing away money when you bet here.

MAIN POINTS:

*based on his betting on the turn we can conclude he has something

* He most likely doesnt put people on hands

* He is LOOSE AND LOOSE PLAYERS LIKE TO CALL

yea, its as simple as that.

fold, move on. Seems like a great table btw. At least you have good table selection (jk ).

Answer 3

I would have to fold.

If he is extremely loose and a bad overall player, that is pretty much the same as a begginer. And if we are pretty much playing a begginer, then they will call anything. They don't know when to let a hand go like most good players. They don't recognize that certain plays are made to represent a hand. Any 2 good starting cards and a very bad player will play it out to the river, regardless of the board or our bets.

"The right play isn't always the best play, and the best play isn't always the right play." This is so true with the very bad players.

We could make the right play and go all in to try and push them off their hand. And they could possibly make the best play by calling with Ace high or a pair of 4's. As sad as that is.

And if they are extremely loose, you can't really eliminate them having the set already by playing any 2 cards.

I play very conservatively though, even more so during cash games. If I bluff, I at least want to have a peice, as a back up plan in case they call. And I can't see going all in with Jack high. Even knowing it's probably the "right" move.

Can we please have the results of Hand of the day XI / XII here please. Thanx.

Sweet. Thanx. Those were some tough lay downs on those. Like I said, theres a good chance of going against an Ace or a King if we wern't beat already. I don't like to race for all my money. Ecspecialy with Jacks.

Answer 4

I think I'd have to fold.

The weakest player, the one I wanted a shot at, already folded.  The guy I'm up against is a gambler, which means he could have called pre-flop with mid pair, or two diamonds, or even A-small, or K-mid.

Then I make a standard continuation, and he flat calls.  That could still be any of the above hands.  

Then I check the turn and he guns me for $72.

- He sensed my weakness and bluffed?

- He hit his K?

- He has a set, but wants me off a flush draw?

- He thinks his pair of 9s is good?

If I go to $300, he's looking at 225ish for a pot of 500.  Plus, he has to ask himself what hand I would have that is makes the ch/raise a good play.

- Ks over?  Too weak.

- A set of 3s?  If I was gonna check/raise, why'd I bet them post-flop?

- The FB?  Hugely unlikely, and unlucky for him.

Given my image as very aggressive, I think the bluff looks like a bluff, and he'll call it with anything north of a 55.  

Unless I have a read that he's on a complete whiff (and I don't,) I fold.

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And personally, I don't have a huge problem with the attempted play, (squeeze out the UTG, get a fold from the fish, or outplay him on the flop.)  But it is pretty high risk, and I'm not sure I'd want to put $50 in play on a hand with so many downsides (OOP, UTG is a gambler, so he's likely to hang around, a lot of flops make your Opps' hands, so outplaying them post-flop becomes difficult and expensive ....)  

I guess I'm not aggressive enough for THAT much of a flyer ....