Have we ever seen naturally occurring information?

Question

Excluding created life, DNA, and all the information that life generates itself. Have we ever, in the history of the universe, seen information, in even the weakest form, occur naturally. If not, what are the properties of amino acids that make it different from every other molecule in the known universe. By information I mean:

1. Information has specificity to it.

while "jkjkdhjhjk hjklhjklfds;ifdjkl jkljklnfioirewoipqq l;sa;;adc oioir"

contains no information because it was not specific in origin, meaning, or interpretation. "Love the Lord with all your heart with all your soul with all your mind and with all your strength. Love your neighbor as yourself. These are the two greatest commandments for in them all the others are contained."

2. Information has a recognizable pattern. "Satan is the prince of this present age. The world follows after him. He has blinded our eyes."

This is a recognizable pattern, not only does the bits of material form a meaningful sentence, the bits of information in the sentence convey a meaning that in able to be interpreted by the receiver. The receiver must of been built with a level of specificity to be able to understand the material. Above this, the information matches a recognizable pattern in the material universe.

"kjkdsoioipe jds; ioppz hjd eifdk dfdn oiefdkl fjduie dsfkl; ffdjkli" along with all other material configuration in the entire universe, convay no information because they contains no meaningful, useful, or reconizable patterns.

3. Information conveys instruction. "Repent. Trust in the Lord Jesus Christ, maker of heaven and earth. Grow in the knowlegde of the Lord. Join a bible believing church. Beware of new age churches."

conveys instructions This is seen with DNA as well. DNA is coded information that actually conveys information by way of mechanical and chemical machines. (kinda like we are doing with our eyes, ears, mouth, and fingertips) This information is able to instruct material to preform tasks.

Follow up question. Keeping in mind the complexity of DNA and all of its ability to convey information on the base mechanical and chemical level, the complexity of all of the micro-biological world, and the extent of information contained in a human mind, (love, hate, jealousy, reverense, mercy, beauty, ect.) how simple would the information have to be for S.E.T.I (search for extra terestrial intellegents) to know that it came from an intellegent source and not random natural events.

To sum it up scientificly and mathematicly.

1. Do we see information occur naturally.

2. If not why do amino acids convey it.

3. How simple would information be for s.e.t.i. to calculate its inteligent origin.

Answer 1

There is a flaw in your reasoning.

For any information source there must be some sort of reader or interpreter.

Example: computer information is made up of 1s and 0s but is practically unreadable except by software and hardware designed to read it.

Example 2: A book is written in a language however if there is no one that can translate it then it does not convey its meaning.

Example 3: DNA (amino acids) have a specific code, however without a living cell with proteins then it does not make anything

As you can see you need something secondary as an interpreter.

In fact, DNA can be the same in two organisms but produce completely different results based upon the interpreter (living cell) a type 2 diabetic for example has the exact same genes as a normal person, however due to the interpretation of the DNA then they appear to be diabetic.

As a result, information relies on the interpreter... not the code.

For the best example: If i was to say "your wallet is over there" while looking straight in your eyes and not indicating a direction, then you would go to where you presumed i was indicating, even though i did not indicate. (this is interesting to try out, i have fun with that)

Final example:

Let us say for example that we recieve a communication from an alien species that we know to contain information. We record it on our radar and find it to say 1010101110000111100000111101010110001

this is fantastic one might say... we discovered a race of beings that can communicate in binary!

Ok... what does it say? you would not know in the faintest... you would need their operating system before you even considered understanding it. Not only that but we would need their radar and their computer... for all you know that signal is saying "every 2nd signal is important, rest is garbage... now here is message"

Answer 2

Your question is too LOOOONNNNGGGG and complicated to answer.

Answer 3

Congrats on obtaining a trifecta!

1.  Completely useless question.

2.  Demonstrated you have no basic understanding of "information".

3.  Managed to sneak in a sermon in your examples.

Answer 4

1. Yes.

2. Not applicable, since the answer to 1 is yes.

3. This question makes no sense.  SETI is a statistical analysis of radio noise to detect possible patterns of signals which might indicate an encoding of information.  SETI requires the signals to be more complicated than, for example, a sine wave or a DC signal interrupted every millisecond by a pulse.  The more complicated the signals, the more likely they are intelligent.

By the way, your initial notion says "jkjkdhjhjk hjklhjklfds;ifdjkl jkljklnfioirewoipqq l;sa;;adc oioir" contains no information, yet this is in fact exactly the kind of coded signal SETI seeks to detect.  For all you or I or anyone else knows, the "jkjkdhjhjk hjklhjklfds;ifdjkl jkljklnfioirewoipqq l;sa;;adc oioir" signal is coded in such a way that we can't immediately decode it.  Yet it is false to say it contains no information.