Have you been ripped off by Virgin Trains?

Question

I bought a saver return ticket from London to Manchester, when I got on the return leg of the journey today 6.02 in the morning, I was forced to pay an extra £109 (on top of my original fare of £59.60) because my ticket was not valid for travel at that time of day. When I bought the ticket on the Virgin website, I was not informed of any restrictions, or the fact that the ticket was only for use in off-peak times

Answer 1

Whilst I am sorry about your difficulties, I thought it was fairly generally known that Saver tickets are to be used off peak only. That is why they are sold - to get bums on seats other than at peak times. All TOCs have the same rules. I must admit, however, I would not have brought my ticket from Virgin's website, but have gone to something like www.thetrainline.com. There the price and validity of tickets is clearly shown against the services you might be thinking of traveling on. In other words, it would have told you that your saver ticket could not be used on the 6.02 ex Manchester

Answer 2

Sorry but this may not be the answer you are looking for but it is the railway rules. There is a hella lot of text below which I pasted directly from the restrictions booklet.

You however must check the restrictions for the ticket you purchase, this is your duty under the "national conditions of carriage" i.e. your contract between the railway and yourself.

You have also been overcharged, you should have been charged the difference between your saver (59.50) and the equivilent open ticket (109.50). I belive that comes to 50.00. Send a snotty letter to Virmin demanding that money back.

Restriction : 9A

  FOR TRAVEL FROM OR VIA:    

London Terminals,_Milton Keynes, Watford, Stevenage, Reading, Kensington Olympia, Bedford, Luton and Luton Airport Parkway.              

                              

These restrictions apply Monday to Friday. By any train on other days.                

If travel does not involve London Terminals, see restriction code 2Z.          

                              

                              

OUTWARD TRAVEL                

You may travel on any train that is scheduled to DEPART as shown below:                  

                              

RETURN TRAVEL                

You may travel on any train that is scheduled to ARRIVE_as shown below:                  

                              

DEPART: LONDON EUSTON        

Between 0915 & 1514 (inc.) and at or after 1812.            

                              

ARRIVE: LONDON EUSTON        

At or after 1100              

                              

DEPART: KING'S CROSS          

between 0929 & 1457 (inc.) and at or after 1859.            

                              

ARRIVE: KING'S CROSS          

At or after 1115.            

                              

DEPART: KING'S CROSS THAMESLINK                    

Between 0925 & 1554 (inc.) and at or after 1925.            

                              

ARRIVE:KING'S CROSS THAMESLINK

At or after 1034              

                              

DEPART:LONDON LIVERPOOL STREET

Between 0929 & 1501 (inc.) and at or after 1845.            

                              

ARRIVE: LONDON LIVERPOOL STREET                        

Any train (see note below)    

                              

DEPART: LONDON MARYLEBONE    

Any train                    

                              

ARRIVE: LONDON MARYLEBONE    

At or after 1026              

                              

DEPART: London Paddington    

Between 0925 & 1630 (inc.) and at or after 1822.            

                              

ARRIVE: LONDON PADDINGTON    

At or after 1044.            

                              

DEPART: LONDON ST PANCRAS    

Between 0901 & 1559 (inc.) and at or after 1901              

                              

ARRIVE: LONDON ST PANCRAS    

At or after 1039              

                              

DEPART: LONDON WATERLOO      

At or after 0930              

                              

ARRIVE: LONDON WATERLOO      

Any train                    

                              

DEPART: KENSINGTON OLYMPIA    

Between 0915 & 1514 (inc.) and at or after 1812.        

                              

ARRIVE: KENSINGTON OLYMPIA    

At or after 1100              

                              

DEPART: CLAPHAM JUNCTION      

At or after 0930              

                              

ARRIVE : CLAPHAM JUNCTION    

Any train                    

                              

DEPART: BEDFORD              

Between 0950 & 1615 (inc.) and at or after 2000          

                              

ARRIVE: BEDFORD              

At or after 1021              

                              

DEPART: LUTON                

Between 0948 & 1618 (inc.) and at or after 1950              

                              

ARRIVE: LUTON                

At or after 1036              

                              

DEPART: LUTON AIRPORT PARKWAY

Between 0925 & 1605 (inc.) and at or after 1927              

                              

ARRIVE: LUTON AIRPORT PARKWAY

At or after 1051              

                              

DEPART: MILTON KEYNES CENTRAL

At or after 0945              

                              

ARRIVE: MILTON KEYNES CENTRAL

At or after 1025              

                              

DEPART: READING              

Between 0950 & 1655 (inc.) and at or after 1847              

                              

ARRIVE: READING              

At or after 1100              

                              

DEPART: READING VIA BANBURY  

Any train                    

                              

ARRIVE: READING VIA BANBURY  

At or after 1012              

                              

DEPART: STEVENAGE            

Between 0946 & 1457 (inc.) and at or after 1859              

                              

ARRIVE: STEVENAGE            

At or after 1039              

                              

DEPART: WATFORD JUNCTION      

Between 0931 & 1529 (inc.) and at or after 1831              

                              

ARRIVE: WATFORD JUNCTION      

At or after 1046              

                              

EASEMENTS:                    

Valid on all SCOTRAIL (FSR) CALEDONIAN SLEEPER services (with supplement).            

If travelling to or via Carlisle, Penrith North Lake, Lancaster or Oxenholme Lake District, travel is allowed on the following departures:    

                              

1546 London Euston to Glasgow Central                      

1646 London Euston to Edinburgh                    

1808 London Euston to Glasgow Central                      

If travelling to Preston, Crewe or Rugby, travel is allowed on the following departure:                    

1808 London Euston to Glasgow  Central                      

                              

NOTES:                        

1) For travel via London, see additional notes on page E9.                          

2) When the origin of the outward portion of the ticket

is related to Westbury, Castle Cary, Pewsey or Swindon, the  

RETURN travel restrictions   above also apply.            

3) Travel to London Liverpool  Street from March,            

Peterborough (or related  stations) or a station north  

of Peterborough, is   permitted only on trains which

arrive at London Liverpool Street at or after 1115.      

4) Information about 'related  stations' can be found in    

Section Z.

                    

          SV SAVER            

                              

Ticket Code:               SVS

Ticket Class:         STANDARD

Ticket Name:             SAVER

Single/Return:          SINGLE

Out Validity:-                

Day -           DATE ON TICKET

Time -               SEE BELOW

Break of Journey:           NO

Pre-Booking Requirement:  NONE

Reservations Compulsory:    NO

Child Discount:            YES

Railcard Discount:         YES

Group Discount:            YES

Refunds:  RETAIL MANUAL PART 1

Out Travel:  AVAILABLE ANY DAY

                              

                              

Ticket Code:               SVR

Ticket Class:         STANDARD

Ticket Name:             SAVER

Single/Return:          RETURN

Out Validity:-                

Day  -          DATE ON TICKET

Time -               SEE BELOW

Return Validity:-            

Day  -      ONE CALENDAR MONTH

Time -               SEE BELOW

Break of Jrny: (OUT)        NO

               (RTN) SEE BELOW

Pre-Booking Requirement:  NONE

Reservations Compulsory:    NO

Child Discount:            YES

Railcard Discount:         YES

Group Discount:            YES

Refunds:  RETAIL MANUAL PART 1

Out Travel:  AVAILABLE ANY DAY

Rtn Travel:  AVAILABLE ANY DAY

    

VIRGIN TRAINS                

Holders of Young Persons, Senior, Disabled, HM Forces and Family Railcards, New Deal Photocards & Inter Rail (Code

70) Cards travelling with Saver tickets may use ANY Virgin Train.                

                              

NETWORK AREA                  

The former London and South East area is now the Network Area - for map see Retail Manual Part Two, (National    

information). Saver tickets issued for journeys commencing WITHIN the Network Area for travel via London are valid by any train to London to connect with trains from London on which they may be used. Saver tickets issued for journeys commencing OUTSIDE the Network Area for travel via London take the restrictions from the origin station to London and return. Unless shown otherwise they are unrestricted between London and the destination station and return.  

London Terminals, see        

restriction code 2Z.          

                              

                              

OUTWARD TRAVEL                

You may travel on any train  

that is scheduled to DEPART as

shown below:                  

                              

RETURN TRAVEL                

You may travel on any train  

that is scheduled to ARRIVE_as

shown below:                  

                              

DEPART: LONDON EUSTON        

Between 0915 & 1514 (inc.) and

at or after 1812.            

                              

ARRIVE: LONDON EUSTON        

At or after 1100              

                              

DEPART: KING'S CROSS          

between 0929 & 1457 (inc.) and

at or after 1859.            

                              

ARRIVE: KING'S CROSS          

At or after 1115.            

                              

DEPART: KING'S CROSS          

THAMESLINK                    

Between 0925 & 1554 (inc.) and

at or after 1925.            

                              

ARRIVE:KING'S CROSS THAMESLINK

At or after 1034              

                              

DEPART:LONDON LIVERPOOL STREET

Between 0929 & 1501 (inc.) and

at or after 1845.            

                              

ARRIVE: LONDON LIVERPOOL      

STREET                        

Any train (see note below)    

                              

DEPART: LONDON MARYLEBONE    

Any train                    

                              

ARRIVE: LONDON MARYLEBONE    

At or after 1026              

                              

DEPART: London Paddington    

Between 0925 & 1630 (inc.) and

at or after 1822.            

                              

ARRIVE: LONDON PADDINGTON    

At or after 1044.            

                              

DEPART: LONDON ST PANCRAS    

Between 0901 & 1559 (inc.) and

at or after 1901              

                              

ARRIVE: LONDON ST PANCRAS    

At or after 1039              

                              

DEPART: LONDON WATERLOO      

At or after 0930              

                              

ARRIVE: LONDON WATERLOO      

Any train                    

                              

DEPART: KENSINGTON OLYMPIA    

Between 0915 & 1514 (inc.)    

and at or after 1812.        

                              

ARRIVE: KENSINGTON OLYMPIA    

At or after 1100              

                              

DEPART: CLAPHAM JUNCTION      

At or after 0930              

                              

ARRIVE : CLAPHAM JUNCTION    

Any train                    

                              

DEPART: BEDFORD              

Between 0950 & 1615 (inc.)    

and at or after 2000          

                              

ARRIVE: BEDFORD              

At or after 1021              

                              

DEPART: LUTON                

Between 0948 & 1618 (inc.) and

at or after 1950              

                              

ARRIVE: LUTON                

At or after 1036              

                              

DEPART: LUTON AIRPORT PARKWAY

Between 0925 & 1605 (inc.) and

at or after 1927              

                              

ARRIVE: LUTON AIRPORT PARKWAY

At or after 1051              

                              

DEPART: MILTON KEYNES CENTRAL

At or after 0945              

                              

ARRIVE: MILTON KEYNES CENTRAL

At or after 1025              

                              

DEPART: READING              

Between 0950 & 1655 (inc.) and

at or after 1847              

                              

ARRIVE: READING              

At or after 1100              

                              

DEPART: READING VIA BANBURY  

Any train                    

                              

ARRIVE: READING VIA BANBURY  

At or after 1012              

                              

DEPART: STEVENAGE            

Between 0946 & 1457 (inc.) and

at or after 1859              

                              

ARRIVE: STEVENAGE            

At or after 1039              

                              

DEPART: WATFORD JUNCTION      

Between 0931 & 1529 (inc.) and

at or after 1831              

                              

ARRIVE: WATFORD JUNCTION      

At or after 1046              

                              

EASEMENTS:                    

Valid on all SCOTRAIL (FSR)  

CALEDONIAN SLEEPER services  

(with supplement).            

If travelling to or via      

Carlisle, Penrith North Lake,

Lancaster or Oxenholme Lake  

District, travel is allowed on

the following departures:    

                              

1546 London Euston to Glasgow

Central                      

1646 London Euston to        

Edinburgh                    

1808 London Euston to Glasgow

Central                      

If travelling to Preston,    

Crewe or Rugby, travel is    

allowed on the following      

departure:                    

1808 London Euston to Glasgow

Central                      

                              

NOTES:                        

1) For travel via London,    

see additional notes on page  

E9.                          

2) When the origin of the    

outward portion of the ticket

is related to Westbury, Castle

Cary, Pewsey or Swindon, the  

RETURN travel restrictions    

above also apply.            

3) Travel to London Liverpool

Street from March,            

Peterborough (or related      

stations) or a station north  

of Peterborough, is          

permitted only on trains which

arrive at London Liverpool    

Street at or after 1115.      

4) Information about 'related

stations' can be found in    

Section Z.                    

          SV SAVER            

                              

Ticket Code:               SVS

Ticket Class:         STANDARD

Ticket Name:             SAVER

Single/Return:          SINGLE

Out Validity:-                

Day -           DATE ON TICKET

Time -               SEE BELOW

Break of Journey:           NO

Pre-Booking Requirement:  NONE

Reservations Compulsory:    NO

Child Discount:            YES

Railcard Discount:         YES

Group Discount:            YES

Refunds:  RETAIL MANUAL PART 1

Out Travel:  AVAILABLE ANY DAY

                              

                              

Ticket Code:               SVR

Ticket Class:         STANDARD

Ticket Name:             SAVER

Single/Return:          RETURN

Out Validity:-                

Day  -          DATE ON TICKET

Time -               SEE BELOW

Return Validity:-            

Day  -      ONE CALENDAR MONTH

Time -               SEE BELOW

Break of Jrny: (OUT)        NO

               (RTN) SEE BELOW

Pre-Booking Requirement:  NONE

Reservations Compulsory:    NO

Child Discount:            YES

Railcard Discount:         YES

Group Discount:            YES

Refunds:  RETAIL MANUAL PART 1

Out Travel:  AVAILABLE ANY DAY

Rtn Travel:  AVAILABLE ANY DAY

                              

                              

EXCEPTIONS                    

Saver tickets are NOT valid:  

                              

in heavy demand business      

traveller and commuter trains

(see validity code tables for

details).                    

                              

                              

                              

break of journey at a London  

Underground station. Tickets  

with LU availability and the  

'maltese cross' symbol in the

route description, allow      

transfer across London        

appropriate to the route of  

the through rail journey being

(See Section A for details).  

                              

                              

break of journey on single or

outward portion other than to

gain access to station        

services. However where it is

necessary to change trains at

an intermediate station and  

there is no reasonable onward

connection the same day, the  

journey may be broken        

overnight and continued the  

next morning.                

                              

in First Class accomodation  

except where an appropriate  

supplement has been paid.    

                              

                              

EASEMENTS                    

Any local validity easements  

will appear in Section M of  

this fares manual.            

                              

Generally, journeys may be    

started before 0230 on the    

morning of the day after the  

ticket's last day of validity.

                              

Train restrictions do not    

apply on Public Holidays.    

                              

A Saver and SuperSaver Ticket

Information Card giving detail

of ticket validity should be  

given out with each Saver    

ticket.                      

                              

                              

VIRGIN TRAINS                

Holders of Young Persons,    

Senior, Disabled, HM Forces  

and Family Railcards, New Deal

Photocards & Inter Rail (Code

70) Cards travelling with    

Saver tickets may use ANY    

Virgin Train.                

                              

NETWORK AREA                  

The former London and South  

East area is now the Network  

Area - for map see Retail    

Manual Part Two, (National    

information).                

Saver tickets issued for      

journeys commencing WITHIN the

Network Area for travel via  

London are valid by any train

to London to connect with    

trains from London on which  

they may be used.            

Saver tickets issued for      

journeys commencing OUTSIDE  

the Network Area for travel  

via London take the          

restrictions from the origin  

station to London and return.

Unless shown otherwise they  

are unrestricted between      

London and the destination    

station and return.

Answer 3

Having just checked the Virgin site, if you click on the "Saver Return" link in the ticket buying bit, it brings up a page giving you the terms and conditions, which quite clearly says:

VALIDITY The outward leg of the journey must be made on off peak services on the date of the ticket. The return leg of the journey must be completed within one calendar month on off peak services

And you have to tick a box to say that you understand and accept the National Conditions of Carriage and Ticket Restrictions as part of the booking process (with a link to both). If you just tick the box without having read them, that's not Virgin's fault.

As for the extra you had to pay, that'd be a Standard Single fare, because you boarded the train without having a valid ticket.

Answer 4

Exactly the same happened to my daughter last year going to glasgow. I had to go to the station, buy more tickets (£90) and spend half an hour waiting for the staff to phone through an authority for them to travel, to get them home. They were never told about any restrictions and the tickets even had valid until printed on them and the dates were within the valid period. I complained to Virgin, and they said she should have known about the restrictions. A friend who is an inspector on the trains said even he had had to look up the restrictions to check them, so how the h**l would she know. I got a £10 voucher for her 'inconvenience' That reminds me.. she aint paid me back yet.

Answer 5

To be honest most people who work on Virgin trains don't have a clue what they are talking about. They get employed for the image not knowledge. My brother used to work for them and he knew what he was talking about, as he worked on the railway since it was British Rail. I've treid getting a job with them , and they would rather employ brainless bimbo's rather somebody who has an interest in the job.

Answer 6

Am always getting rip off by virgins....... if it dosnt say on the ticket then you should get it for that price read terms and conditions

Answer 7

no I haven't. in fact I get 45% off all train fares with Virgin......Cos I work for them.

I don't use trains tho so I'm thinking of getting a job at the local McDonald's as I do eat those so it seems a better staff incentive!! :-) x x

Answer 8

Actually.......it was vice versa for me.  Thought it strange i couldnt find my seat in normal 2nd class carriage. So promptly sat down in my seat number which happened to be in business class. very cushty! Trolly dolly came along...offered me wine and some light snacks......F.O.C. of course. Choice of newspaper.......sat back and relaxed. Admired the well groomed 'suiters and booters' surrounding me with their laptops and notebooks. But feeling quite happy with myself that some idiot had obviously made a booboo and not charged me business class when i booked ticket.

Then came the ticket inspector! No big deal.......handed over ticket, to be promptly told not only was i in wrong carriage, but the wrong train! hahahahaha

Had changed at York and as timing was very tight, jumped on the train that was going to Darlington. Didnt think for one minute that there would be two trains going to Darlington within 5 minutes of each other. Anyway.....He very nicely asked me to move to 2nd class, but let me take my wine ,snacks and newspaper. And guess what the next stop was.yep Darlington. so got home earlier, fed, watered and well up on stocks and shares. So thanx Mr B. pleasure was all mine.

Answer 9

If you clicked on the hyperlink which said Saver Return, on the list of tickets and times which the website gave you, it would've given you details about your ticket.  This includes these important lines:

VALIDITY: The outward leg of the journey must be made on off peak services on the date of the ticket. The return leg of the journey must be completed within one calendar month ON OFF PEAK SERVICES

Also, in future, if you have the ability to book in advance, you could get yourself a bargain with Virgin Value singles.

These start from £12.50 each way in Standard Class, and £30.50 in First Class. I've never travelled standard on a Pendolino yet, as i've allways used Virgin Value firsts where ever i go.

   I don't mean to say you can get the £12.50 tickets on the 06:02 ex Manchester, but you could perhaps save yourself money by getting a value single on the way up, and the Advance Standard C single (peak time advance single valid on specified service- £42) on the way back from Manchester.

Total cost for value advance return- £54.50

(£12.50 standard class single London-Manchester,  ÃƒÂ‚£42.00 Manchester-London on the 06:02.)  

It's a bit different to the £168 you had to pay.

I hope this helps you with any train tickets you buy from Virgin in future.

EDIT: Barry Salter- Why've you posted an answer which is partly exactly the same as my earlier one?

Answer 10

I have always found travelling with virgin fine, in this instance I would get in touch with their customer service department and plead your case. If it is a case that you did not read the small print properly just put it down to experience but I am sure when you purchased the ticket you will have been asked at what time did you want to travel?

Answer 11

All I can say is when I answer any questions over long distance travel, advice is NEVER buy online! Always go to the nearest manned station and seek advice, it is more concise and they have to tell you all of the restrictions and options and Must sell you the cheapest fare for that particular journey.

And the actual rules concerning travelling restrictions actually runs to just over 72 A4 pages of small print conflicting information and interesting facts.

Answer 12

All railway fares in Britain are a rip-off, because they are on average 3 times what you would expect to pay in the rest of Europe.

This in turn is because British train companies are run like any other business, i.e. to make sufficient profit to satisfy their shareholders, and they will use whatever tactics they can get away with to achieve this (including, as e.g. First Great Western do, issuing tickets with their name and 'only' printed on them, which are not valid on other companies' trains, even if they provide a similar service over the same route).

In most of the rest of Europe, the railways are treated as they should be, i.e. an essential public service, which means they are more strictly regulated and better supported by their respective governments.

This was once the case in Britain, of course, but some people in the government a few years back had other ideas and the rest, as they say, is history.

Answer 13

I trust that company about as far as I can throw them.  My fiance' had a Virgin Mobile 'pay-as-you-go' phone, and they wouldn't refund us the money we had put on the phone when we decided to go with a different plan.

I think that company should be boycotted at all costs.  Worst customer service I have EVER dealt with.

Answer 14

Virgin Trains deeply regrets the fatality resulting from the accident that took place shortly after 20:00 on Friday 23 February 2007 near Grayrigg north of Oxenholme in Cumbria.

The train involved was the 17:15 from London Euston to Glasgow Central, operated by Virgin Trains.

The thoughts of everyone at Virgin Trains are with the families and loved ones of those who lost their life or were injured in this terrible accident. We are doing whatever we can to offer assistance.

Line reopened on 12 March

The line at Grayrigg reopened at 03:00 on Monday 12 March and a normal service is now operating over the West Coast Main Line in both directions.