Have you ever tried to introduce a new horse but had HUGE problems?

Question

My best friend is an experienced horseperson. She currently owns a 7 yr old Morgan gelding and a donkey gelding. Both grew up in a herd situation together, the Morgan was a stallion until he was 3 and pasture bred. For the last year the two have lived together at her acreage.

This month she bought a 2 yr old AQHA mare. She did everything right - kept the horses across from each other in good fencing until they seemed settled. First she put the donkey in with the mare and they got along like best friends. But when she tried to introduce her gelding, it got ugly!

The gelding has been very, very aggressive. He has chased the mare very hard, and run her through or over fences twice, and taken off alot of hair from biting. If the donkey is in the pen he tries to protect the mare, which seems to make things worse. My friend has tried everything - giving them more time across the fence before trying again, putting the mare and gelding in without the donkey, supervising them, etc.

Answer 1

well considering that the stallion was cut at 3, that means that he was fully sexually developed when he was gelded and can be very agressive because of that.  You can't make horses like each other.  It's their attitude that they approach the situation in.  One is more likely to be more submissive considering that the Morgan is hot.  The donkey probably went into the situation already knowing that there was going to be no fight because he's accepted that he was going to to be the submissive one.  The mare on the other hand is a young one.  She's only 2 and most likely high spirited.  There's no way to get her to be submissive to him or the other way around so its a tricky situation but try having them in close stalls.  Get them acquainted and living closely together first before trying more in pastures.  Close stalls gives them sniffing familiarity area but still a barrier in case. eating and living near each other is a good way to get them more familiarized with each other.  Take it in short steps like walks together hitching together.  Things of that nature.  she can use her good judgment she knows her horses and what their tolerances and habits and reactions are.

Best of luck :]

Answer 2

I've actually saw and dealt with this problem twice to this degree and several times to a lesser degree. Both of the worst cases were totally different situations and solutions.

In the one situation we have a large alpha gelding, now a 16yo, born here/raised here. Gelded at 6months. No stud-like tendencies but is definitely a herd leader. He runs fine with a pasture full of mares OR a pasture full of geldings.

BUT...we can not mix both mares and other geldings in his pasture.  If there are four other geldings and add one mare he's aggressive to the mare and ostracizes her. In with four mares, add a gelding he is aggressive towards the gelding.

Keep in mind we have a pretty closed herd and most all horses have been here for years if not born here, so unfamiliarity isn't an issue. All are horses he's pastured with before in either the mare group or gelding group.

I can only surmise that it goes back to the herd mentality of horses. In the wild you either have a herd of mares, with one alpha "lead mare" and one mature stallion (BTW that stallion is underneath the alpha mare. Alpha mares lead, stallions are for reproduction and protection) OR a bachelor band of males only that form their own herd, with their own internal pecking order and one leader.  With him we just deal with him on his own terms and usually leave him with the open mares or mares with new foals as he's very protective of them

The other situation was a OTT TB rescue mare. She had lived her entire life in a stall. She had absolutely ZERO herd instincts or communication abilities. She seemed to not comprehend what the other horses were "saying" and quite honestly seemed to "reply" in a way that infuriated any horse we put her with. She would ignore the body languageof the other horses  (pinned ears, snaking neck, sucked down tail, even when one flipped around and backed towards her threateningly, she'd ignore them until they kicked) She would "run" but never gave off any cues of submission to the others.. Also would just saunter up to other horses, invade their space and ignore their warnings to back off, until they defended their space.  It was a nightmare. She was totally miserable and kept the other horses in an uproar as well.

But when alone she pined for the other horses. We finally built her, her own special paddock in a corner of the other pastures, in a spot they all liked to come for shade and she stayed there, across the fence from the others so she wasn't totally alone but safe. She never learned any herd or socialization skills in all the years she was here and was generally totally ignored by the others.

I know this was long but the point I'm trying to make is that sometimes you have to deal with a horse on terms it decrees. If this mare hasn't been in a herd situation before she might not have the herd socialization skills to understand how to fit in or you might just have one of those geldings that either have to be with mares or geldings but not both together.  

Also make sure the area is large enough for her to move away...you said "corral" so I'm not sure of the size. In the wild new horses live on the outskirts of the herd area until they are allowed in. The area might not be big enough to allow that.

You might also try pulling out the donkey and the mare to a totally new area, somewhere the gelding has never lived. Let them stay there long enough to declare that as their "territory", might take a month or more. Then try introducing the gelding in with them. This will change the entire scenario as in his mind she won't be moving into his territory but instead he'll be moving into her territory ---- a new unknown area for him, with him the newcomer "asking" to be allowed in.

Also putting her in while in season was a big mistake. At that time mares are much more submissive and will take more aggression before moving off. Also many geldings seem to get more aggressive toward mares in heat, particulary strange mares. They go from seeming interested to intense dislike in a matter of seconds. Even if they don't show heat towards him they seem to dislike the pheromone smell.

Answer 3

I would try removing the donkey altogether for a while.

The Morgan is herdbound on the donkey, and completely insane with jealousy.  This is not going to change without drastic measures.

If you take the donkey elsewhere for a while, the Morgan will get lonely.  Really lonely.  So lonely he'll look for and accept companionship elsewhere.

Start over with the mare across the fence.  When the Morgan is hanging out with her there, put them in together.  When he's accepted her in the pasture, give them a few days together, then bring the donkey back.

Supervise everything.  Hope this helps!

Answer 4

I've had a very similar instance with a mare and pony gelding at my place. This time around it was the mare being the aggressor. She was 'buddy's' with another gelding. The first thing we did was leaving everyone separate and let them get accustom to each other.

After we did the introduction with the two geldings first, and everything went smoothly, our next step was to turn little miss snotty butt out there. We turned her out with the pony and gelding. BIG mistake that was. She was tearing up and down the pasture chasing the little guy around.

We had to take her out and figure out a new plan of action. What it ended up coming down to was separating her and the gelding she was initially attached to for a few weeks strait. We 'weaned' them off of each other. Otherwise we would've had broken fences and torn up horses, they were that attached.

We kept the new gelding in the pasture right next to the mare and out of loneliness, she started to 'hang out' with him. It got to the point where they really seemed to like each others company so we turned them out together, and everything was fine.

The next challenge was bringing in the other gelding. We were a bit worried we'd have a problem, but to my surprise that too went well.

I'm not sure if this helps any, but this is my personal experience, so it's all I've got. lol Good luck with it!

Answer 5

She did not do everything right.  She introduced one horse (the less dominant) before the other.  It may have created a jeolousy/aggression issue.  

Even so it does seem to be a gelding thing to act like that towards particular mares.  I am not sure why but it happens.  The two may never get along.  

We once had a mare that we removed from the herd to put weight on her.  We kept her out a month in a neighboring lot.  When we returned her to the herd, our gelding began chasing her.  We ended up finally selling the gelding after trying for six months to get him to stop harassing her.  And no the two had gotten along beautifully before we separated her for that month.

And 4 the horses.  For the record the alpha mare is not more dominant than the stallion.  She is just followed by the other mares.  In fact it is not always the alpha mare that is followed.  More often it is the older more experienced mare that the other mares follow.  This may have nothing to do with the dominance hierarchy.  Our herd is that way, our oldest mare is the least aggressive and clearly the lowest on the totem pole when it comes to feeding etc.  However she is the one that generally leads to and from the grazing areas and feeding and watering places.

From your additions my first summary of the situation stands.  A jealousy trend was started from putting the mare in with the donkey first.  Here is something you can try.  We didn't have a round pen and the time so couldn't do this.  

Put the gelding in a round pen Inside the field with the mare.   That will prevent him getting to her and encourage him to want to bond with her and her with him.   That will give the most likelihood of the two making any type of bond.  Then you can release the gelding in with the mare and see how he acts.  I would guess this will take up to a month of him being in the round pen.  It would be best if the donkey were no where in sight.After they have bonded the donkey can be brought in.

Answer 6

I had a problem when i brought in a Arab colt and put him next to the corral my Paint gelding was in.  The paint has a Drafty mare who is his, i can turn them two out together and all is well.  That gelding tried everything he could to get to that colt and kill him.  I moved the Colt (now gelding) one more corral over and all was well, brought in a Paint colt put him next to the aggressive Paint gelding and they like each other.  I think the Paint just hates Arabs.  He is also fine with all the other mares here now, he just really wants to kill that Arab still.

Answer 7

I have been in the same situation, I have had 4 geldings together for the past 3 years and they established their pecking order and things were great.  Last week I purchased a Saddlebred mare who was aggressive in the herd she came from, so I knew their might be a problem.  I first put them separated like she did, but when I wanted to introduce them face to face, I had my husband walk the mare, and I got my gelding that is the dominant horse (also previously a stud and been bred) and we just walked them on lead lines side by side for about 30 minutes OUT OF THE PASTURE, and let them nose each other as if they were on a ride with each other.  After that we walked into the pasture (with the other 3 geldings) and once again just walked around the fence lines so that she knew where they were.  The other geldings came up and started nosing her and she stood her ground and kicked at the more pushy ones.  Once they settled with us just walking around the pasture we then turned her loose and i still held the gelding and we just walked around a little while and after about 15 minutes I turned him loose and he immediately ran to her and there was a little squealing but  no chasing or dangerous behaviour.  maybe she could try something like this...it worked for me.

Answer 8

Has the Morgan gelding ONLY been turned out with other geldings or have there been other mares in that time?

You said he was used for stud?  I wonder if his behavior is not from this being a mare & he is....How do you put it?  

When a band of horses are led by a single stallion, he runs them, bites them, etc. to show who is boss & to keep his girls under his thumb so to speak.  Does that make any sense?  It may be a dominance thing.

As for what to do, WOW!!!  Keeping them separated longer.  Would riding the gelding & ponying the filly be an option?  I have never had a problem like this, I am a loss.

I will be very curious as to what others say on this interesting delemma.  Sorry I can't help, in the mean time I'll rack my brain & see if anything rattles loose.