Health Freedom?

Question

I read this article today and thought it was interesting.

What are your opinions on the examples and arguments it makes (other than that the term n**i is excessively used). I thought it made a really good point that "people are prohibited from using alternative medicine, but abortions are completely legal"....which by any standards of ethics doesn't make sense.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Stang/alan57.htm

*and that medicare spiked health care costs.

I personally think the medical industry was set up on a profit model rather than a benefit to society paradime, and many "heartless" people in the system perpetuate it; or as my friend said "If you get payed for doing the wrong thing, it's normally very hard to do the right thing."

That said, I don't fully agree with parts of this, and I hence want your opinion.

My own view simply is that "medical freedom" should have been put in the bill of rights.

Thanks for any replies!

Answer 1

How are people "prohibited" from using AltMed???  That's just silly.

It is a huge industry, many billions of dollars spent on it every year by people having the complete freedom to spend their money how they want on whatever dubious service or product they desire.  It is free market capitalism.  

Conflating alternative medicine and abortion seems like a Carl Rovian sort of tactic.  Pure inflammatory. As are the references to n***s.

You may well be talking about the US healthcare system when you say it is set up on a profit model, but that certainly doesn't apply to most of the rest of the civilized world with socialized healthcare.  There are people in any profession or industry who are just in it for the money....in AltMed too, if you would take off your rosey hued magic glasses.

You don't need it specified in the Bill of Rights...you have life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. (or at least until Bush suspends the elections because of a "terrorist threat"  nudge nudge)

Answer 2

this is a very long answer but full of facts that are helpful & interesting ..hope you read it. oops sorry the complete answer would not post cutting off the ending..if you want to repost a similar question & email me the link to it I will repost the end of my answer which I will save so you can get the whole thing....that is upsetting

I have strong feelings on this topic. I did read the entire article and found this quote interesting about the family sneaking the devise into the hospital and using it

Two weeks later, the lady walked out of the hospital and returned to work. The doctors could find no cancer. She was “clean.” A real doctor would be eaten up with curiosity. How did this happen? What did you do? Not here. American doctors don’t want to know. Indeed, they are irritated. They don’t want to talk about it. As minions of the medical industry, they are embarrassed.

This is completely true..I once heard of a man who was able to cure himself of a heart disease that was supposed to kill him by the time he was 20..his parents died in their early 50s from heart disease & he was orphaned at 15 and then developed heart problems..told he would be dead by age 20 without open heart surgery & that he had congenital heart valve deformity & nothing but surgery would help him.  When another teen he befriended died on the operating table from the same disease & surgery the man was so frightened he snuck out of the hospital the minute the staff left the room after telling him & went on his own health journey doing multiple alternative treatments.  three years later he returned to the doctor who was amazed when he redid tests & discovered the heart valve were normal.the dr proclaimed it a miracle when the teen said I did a lot to help get this "miracle", the doctor's eyes glazed over..he was not the least interested in knowing how the teen did the impossible.  He also poured burning oil on the hand & sustained the worst degree of burns & doc said he needed extensive skin graphs as all tissue, skins, nerve etc were damaged down to the charred bone & could not regrow, but the man walked out & 30 days later had skin on his hand...the hand burn specialist was so shocked he called all his colleagues in to see it but again not interested in knowing how he regrew the skin again calling it a miracle.  finally, he had a serious sking accident & needed arthroscopic surgery for dramatically separated ligaments & torn meniscus cartilage..told nothing but this surgery would help he left & thought in 30 days he would be better..he wasn't..told he would walk with a limp all his life without surgery, in 60 days of intense alternative health, he went dancing and today has no limp.

He then opened an underground clinic & the last ten years of the 20 he spent curing the dying and the incurables..those told there was no hope and most of them were healed of everything from lung & pancreatic cancer (both very deadly) to AIDS to MS to diabetes to heart disease where they were too ill to have heart transplants to brain cancer filling half their brains.  I am a very smart person & I do not believe this man is a fraud.  I have seen people with cancer healed on his program called the incurables.

He trained with a man named dr chritopher who originated this program which Schulze, the man I spoke told you of above, enhanced  was arrested 6 times for healing people & angering the doctors around who saw his waiting room filled to flowing cause his stuff worked as theirs stood near empty. Schulze was arrested 3 times the last invaded by FDA officers with bulletproof vests, machine guns & battering rams where they seized all his records terrorizing staff.  He got off on a technicality/escaped prison (for healing people without a license) & closed his clinic..he now reaches a lot more people/he saw over 100,000 people in his clinic& millions worldwide are now aware of him.

He & Christopher helped me to stop my mom's heart attack twice in progress when nitro did nothing.  How..with a simple kitchen herb..cayenne pepper.I posted this one year ago nearly to the day..here is the account written right after it happened.

http://www.curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=...

Even allopathic medical doctors healing people and deviating from standard approved things like chemo & radiation have been invaded with the above scenario with guns & lost their licenses or been forced to leave the country when harassed by the AMA when they would not sell their treatment to the AMA (likely to be shelved to continue to make the huge profits from cancer treatments & expensive pharmaceuticals)..some doctors lost their licenses for even giving an unapproved type of vit b shot made by another country that was more effective.

Freedom...tell that to parents charged with child abuse for treating their child with alternative treatment from Canada that was working  & not what the doctor said they must use (toxic treatments the USA uses) who saw their child die when deprived of the successful treatment as they could not sneak it in as they set up guards at the hospital to prevent this.  

Tell this to the teenager who fled the country as the courts were forcing him to get chemo who cured himself in Canada using essiac & other alternative treatments. we have freedom until we try to do what we feel is in our child's best interests. Due to the money interest.  Watch the tapes "hoxsey the quack who cured cancer" to see how the AMA got so powerful..Sued by the AMA after he refused to sell his very successful herbal formula passed down generations & requested if he sold it that it be given free to those who could not afford it. as he had promised this to his dad on his deathbed, Morris Fishbine, the head of the AMA who was furious he would not sell it w/o that clause went after him suing him many dozens of times.  As patient after patient given a death sentence lined up with the medical record in tow to tell how he had saved their life (often free of charge) & how they were still living many years after the doctor said they would die, Hoxsey proved his case & at that point & maybe since I am not sure, he became the only person to ever win a case against the AMA but eventually they got his clinic closed down where he had to go to Mexico. It was all captured on newspapers and the film is fascinating & well worth watching.. this film is generally sold on ebay or amazon.it tells how the AMA got all the other practitioners out of the competition & grew from a small trade union and about its "quack files"..even chiropractors have sued in court &  won on the charge the AMA tried to ruin their specialty..even today they get government studies that prove the effectiveness of chiropractic for back pain stopped..when this study put chiropractors in first place, followed by exercise with medical treatment down the line, the AMA got the study cancelled for necks.

Even Dr Loraine Day, a medical doctor who cured her breast cancer with alternative means & has a tape called cancer doesn't scare me anymore talks a lot about the money factor and why most doctors do not know about the effectiveness & safety of nontoxic, effective, inexpensive alternative treatments..it is also a fascinating watch.

The other poster talked about other countries but in Europe, they use like 85% herbs/supplements and 15% medical drugs going first to the herbal remedy & using the powerful and more toxic drugs only as a last resort.

There is value to allopathic medicine..like recently I was in a serious car accident where i missed death by a second & the hospital could quickly scan my body & see if something was broken..they did miss lacerated liver and spleen though & I went into shock 9 days later.  In that case I needed the hospital (although I have since found that cayenne is administered for shock as it equalizes the blood pressure..mine had dropped 70 points by the time I got to the hospital & I was glad for the allopathic care I got.

I know this is true about the blood pressure as when my mom (who never did any thing I suggested) was taken to the hospital on the 9th heart attack she had that year (I had stopped her 7th and 8th but noone gave her the herbs I left that worked & noone called me for 5 hours & took her to the hospital)..her blood pressure dropped to the 30s...I could not give her anything surrounded by large family --some in the medical field who felt I was "torturing her" though not once did anything I ever gave her fail to help her & the nurses there all the time.  finally left alone, I begged her to take the cayenne.   Unfortunately it was a very hot brand as the milder one was at home & it was so hot & they did not know she took it & it took 15 minutes to get her ice or water & so she refused to take it again. BUT she went from writhing nearly incoherently & begging to let her die to totally being calmed & being able to talk to us & give us loving messages when we steered the conversation to good past memories,  When the nurse came in, all eyes were trained to the blood presser monitor cause it was crucial it rise & so at least 10 people were watching & we all cheered when it was normal..shortly thereafter the doctor called & said she had a living will & disconnect any help & they put her in the palliative unit where they essentially killed my mom by giving her pain pills they knew would kill her..the nurse confirmed this by telling me just before they admitted her that she would die that day & just when we saw how she was neglected & so much worst & how we were treated & were going to use the power of attorney to get her out..we got word when we left for 15 minutes to discuss it & eat something that she died...it was one of the worst moments.

Alternative health & herbs kills far less people than regular doctors/drugs do..Herbs,  sun, good water, exercise, good foods, & so forth are not patentable and

Answer 3

I haven't actaully read the article but do think that healthcare is not driven by doing the best for the patient although that is probably what most healthcare practitioners intend when they initially take on the training in order to qualify as ______.

The UK model of healthcare which is more like the canadian and Australasian models aren't so much driven by profit but more by keeping themselves in employment.

People want to do what they are trained at.

I read a report of 120 patients on a waiting list for hip replacements.

These 120 where assessed by "Super physiotherapists' (I guess these were expereince physio's in a more consultancy role).

The waiting list droped from 120 to around 30. The others were put on programs such as weight loss,exercise, general lifestyle changes etc.

The bottom line is Orthopaedic surgeons operate, thats what they do. That is their method of providing a fix.

Physios don't operate so they find other ways of finding a fix. unfortunately the practitioners solution may not be appropriate for the patient but they are often given no other option.

This isn't just down to bloody mindedness and spite its down to what is percieved as being a best fix and lack of knowledge of the other options either because of lack of research or (often) shear bloody mindedness.

Skep doc has obviously never discharged any of his patients for taking complementary therapy as well as allopathic. That is good to hear. Trust me there are too many people I have seen who have been told to stick with allopathy or they are to be discharged. This isn't standard practice but common.

In the UK cancer is the exclusive domain of allopathy. It is illegal to offer non allopathic treatment to patients for cancer.

I'm not sure what Australasia's rulling on this is but it si likely to be very similar.

Once I studied health and health care it didn't take me long to become very synical and realise that "the greater good" that allopaths often talk about has virtually nothing to do with patient care but almost all to do with keeping themselves at the top of the tree and keeping healthcare as exclusive to allopathy as possible.

Who would seriously want to cure cancer?

The manufacturers of Chemo drugs?

The manufacturers of machines which administer radiao therapy?

The staf that all make a living from treating it extending a pateints lifespan but not actually curing it?

The bottom line is all of us working in healthcare have jobs because people get sick.

We nee to remember we are there for them, they are not there for us. We need to offer the best care available and that may often mean giving that patient away to someone who can offer them treatment better than you can.

What we see too often is people being closed minded and deciding that they and only they can offer their pateint the best treatment.

GP's in the UK are indirectly paid and all have a long list of patients with chronic conditions they can't effectively treat but still write them prescription after prescription. Why?

Partly because they are doing the best they can do for them but also because it keep them in a job.

As complememtary therapist we really need to come up with a decent testing model rather than try and "play in allopthys sandpile" and use their very flawed reductionist model.

I would support any decent initiative to make research centrally funded to help keep a more level playing field.

Answer 4

I beleive that the drug administration and the pharmacutical companies are working in conjuction with the medical assn...They dont want you to find an easy natural...FREE cure! They want to put you on a medicine or preform surgery(Both of which usually have complications resulting in you needing more medication or surgery!) There is a loop here. We all have that common friend, or friends, that for as long as we've known them they have needed pills, drugs and even get more percriptions usually from complications or side effects of the previously used drug....stay drug free and Share with anyone who will listen about natural simple cures (There are many out there that the drug admin is actually black listing every day...they're apparently after flax seed oil(very healthy stuff!)

Answer 5

"other than that the term n**i is excessively used" - Godwin's law

"I thought it made a really good point that "people are prohibited from using alternative medicine, but abortions are completely legal""

to be fair, the arguments for abortion are absurd and only ever apply to abortion  - "it's my body and I can do what I want" - no, sorry, you can't do what you want -  http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/ind...

I didn't know that they had to sign a form saying they won't take anything else.  I find that outrageous and I think the article does a good job in highlighting that.  Reporting of selective case studies isn't a fair argument but it's still a good article for the points it makes so thanks for sharing.

And these doctors who prescribe one thing to their patients whilst taking another thing for themselves quite possibly are hypocrites, and one day will be called to question about that.

But the state wants people to divorce their personal views and professional duties.  Hence, there are politicians and doctors who believe abortion is wrong but say that they don't want their religious beliefs to get in the way of their professional lives.  The case isn't so different with alt med.  They will consider alt med to be their personal views that they can't allow to affect their professional duties.  The thing is, doctors are just slaves in the state-controlled machinery and have to do as they are told.

And why would anyone even trust the State when it's capable of throwing bombs on innocent civillians abroad?  Yet we delude ourselves in thinking that they really care for us - yeah, right.

"If you get payed for doing the wrong thing, it's normally very hard to do the right thing" - that's true, which is why I'm glad to have a religious viewpoint that tells me that I will be brought to question for everything I do, and that makes me value life to the utmost rather than believe human beings are just complex machines for propagating the genes.