Help, I am in a MAJOR horse funk - Has this ever happened to you?

Question

I'm in a major horse training funk. I got Dobbin in 2004. He was a mess. I don't have a complete history, but from what I know he was definitely abused (old rope scars, etc.) and terrified of whips and most everything else, started very young (say about 2 yo) by people who knew nothing about horses, sold and started again around 3 after he was gelded (saddle plopped on and 9 inch shank bit), ridden in a harsh-handed, ventroflexed forced rackish-gait (extremely confused about his gaits when I got him), ridden in a pack horse fashion on trails by different inexperienced riders, fell more than once with riders, malnourished, upside down neck, stifle problem, couldn't walk a straight line, couldn't turn, slab-sided, high-headed with a rock mouth, no conceivable whoa to speak of...I hope I'm giving the right details.

Once I got him and realized the extent of his problems, I wiped the slate clean and started him over from the ground up as if he'd never been started before. I spent over 1-1/2 years the first time retraining, with professional help as needed. He learned to lunge (would run full speed backwards, spook, drag the handler across the ring, hide his hiney, etc. - again, never the same thing twice). He softened to the snaffle bit, learned to straighten, turn, yield to pressure, voice commands for walk and trot and whoa. I started riding again, from the very basics - worked a nice active walk and remedial lateral movements for close to 6 months; the trot took another 8 months. He was extremely front heavy, like he was bogged down in cement, and once ridden would brace and lean against the bit, grab it, run sideways, a number of evasions. I would soften my hands and push him forward, no easy task, and was lucky to come out of it alive each time bc I never knew where we woud end up, face down on the ground, sideways in a tree - you get the idea. His transitions were like two trains colliding and this horse, unlike any I have ever in my life encountered, can move like a verifiable slinky.

To confirm it wasn't something I was doing, I even paid some top-notch riders (as in Grand Prix) with perfect balance and hands to work him; no difference. So I took on another training professional and we backtracked again. Once we came to the snaffle riding part again; it started all over. Yet I can free lunge him in a HUGE arena with body language and voice commands and he's fantastic. The trainer I have now won't ride him in a snaffle any more; he says it's just not for Dobbin and all we do is play the hard mouthed game instead of teaching him anything. We put him back in a curb and he's an angel. Yet I feel I have failed and am a crappy horsewoman and am obsessing about it all of the time. I've never encountered anything like this with any other horse and I'm not inexperienced. With the curb, it takes very little in the way of aids and seat; only when he decides to test it with something wacky like "ooh, let's see if I can suddenly gallop sideways towards that other horse" is it used to its effect and now that behavior has been entirely eliminated.

The vet says likely nerve damage in the mouth, after watching me work him in both bits and doing an oral examination. But there is no physical evidence of that in the way of scarring or splitting. I take extraordinary care of Dobbin - regular chiropractor, top vet care, best feed, joint support supplement, massages, equine dentist. He has the best manners of any horse at the barn. I am firm, kind, fair, and when all is accomplished guilty of being a bit of a softie, but never with training or groundwork.

So, first, I'd like to compare what I've done with what others do to rebit, to see if something was missed.

Second, has a horse ever made you feel like your previously successful skills and techniques amount to nothing?

Third, have I failed or do I just need to stop driving myself nuts and accept he goes in a curb and that's that?

I'm really depressed and in a major funk, so please don't beat me up. I've done a dandy job of doing that myself. I even dream about it.

Oh, and Dobbin stays with me for his lifetime. He came to me not to long after my sister died tragically and our bond is strong. I credit him for giving me a reason to live and despite our training challenges, he is meant for me.

I know I've asked regarding different facets of this same issue previously. Thanks to all who don't mind taking another look.

"Before" June 2004: http://pic80.picturetrail.com:80/VOL2132/10980997/19777067/319268439.jpg

"After" May 2008 (Trainer riding in curb): http://pic80.picturetrail.com:80/VOL2132/10980997/19777067/329506367.jpg

Answer 1

Well you have  successed you said so yourself.  Dobbin stays withme for his lifetime.  He came to me not to long after my sister died tragically and out bond is strong.   What more could the two of you ask for.  Keep working and doing the best that you can.  If Dobbin is not going to be the horse that you want to ride, well there are lot of disappointments in life, then just keep him as stable mate to the horse that you want to ride and train

Answer 2

The more horses you train, the more times you'll discover no one knows it all.

Horses have personalities, just like people, and some are just lazy, just oppositional, just ornery.  They may enjoy being that way, who knows?  But we have to accept them as they are, and go from there.  We can't change their personality in any basic way, as it is inborn and in your horse's case reinforced by his early experiences.

Some horses, with no nerve damage and no bad experiences, just prefer the curb.  It may be easier on their tongues; they may not tolerate the snaffle joint hitting the roof of their mouth; they may require constant reminding who the dominant party is.  

I've had two horses who went beautifully in curbs, but would never behave at all in snaffles.  One was an OTTB; in a curb he lowered his head, worked off his rear, was happy and content.  In a snaffle, he was back to his racing days, head up and looking to run and darned if he was going to stop.  The other was an Arabian.  She just didn't like the feel of the bit in her mouth, whenever it moved she'd panic.  No abuse, she just wouldn't accept it.  Riding her with a snaffle, she was constantly on edge for no reason at all.  In a curb, she was calm and happy.  In both cases, I put them in curb bits with the curb chains so loose as to be nonexistent and went from there.  They were both happy as clams.

Another Arabian I had hated anything but a jointed bit.  As I was training her Western, I finally had to resort to a TomThumb.  Problem solved.  She didn't need the harshness, she just needed the joint to fit the anatomy of her individual mouth better.

Your horse's mouth may just be better fitted with a curb bit.  Have you tried him in a straight bar or mullen mouth snaffle?  Sometimes these will work - at least long enough to get through a dressage class where a snaffle is required!

You've obviously done a wonderful job on this horse, and I think you should consider yourself a major success here.  Getting a horse to work well in a snaffle is not the only - or even an appropriate! - measure of success.  He's happy and secure in your leadership when he's in the curb.  He's got the personality that will always test your authority.  Keep him in the curb, and pat yourself on the back.  You've done a great job; you're just using the wrong yardstick.

Answer 3

What about using a Kimberwick?  You have to option of using it as a small shanked curb bit or a snaffle.  

I have a now 19 yr old Azteca (QH and Andalusian) gelding who also came from an abusive home.  He's been with me since '01 and has come a LONG way!  The first time he and I had a discussion, I was in my old Siegfried and he decided after my riding around the barn for a couple of hours at a WALK working on his being barn sour, to do a 360 degree turn on the forehand!  Thank heaven my legs still worked!  This had been effective with the others who rode him.  At my age then I decided it was safer to ride him western as well. About the time I had him going good ('03), the little guy being a gray horse, developed melonomias on the upper and lower sides of his mouth.  They haven't effected his eating, they just look different.  I moved him out of a bit and into a mechanical hackamore without much of a problem.

With continual work and remaining consistant in asking him over and over again for something gently, he came around.  Today, my kid called me and said that the little girl we'd hoped would take him, fell in love and rode him around without a problem.  Of course her father (He's a Charro and Grey does NOT like Charros, because of the prior abuse.) got on him and the first thing he did, was spin on the forehand (Something he really hasn't done in several years!).

And he rode around in just a simple nylon halter to boot. Guess I did my job.

Answer 4

first, it's never happened to me.

second, you've done more for the horse then anyone else who has owned the horse, and more then most the people i know in real life. so i think you shouldnt be that far down on yourself.

i am just learning about bits, so my opinion may not count for much. curb bits are (in my opinion) harsher, but just a suggestion, have you ever tried a kimberwicke bit? maybe (just a thought) if you tried the harshes setting on the kimberwicke and use light hands, then work your way to the least harsh setting maybe that way you can get your horse into a snaffle bit.  i love using the kimberwicke because of the 3 settings and the choice you have from going to direct bit to curb bit. anyway, that's the only thing i could think of with bits, and i'm not that smart when it comes to different bits.

good luck

Answer 5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRVe5IdcY...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmU2P_Ric...

http://www.wilhowe.com/articles9.htm

http://www.eastcoasthorses.com/western-p...

A link to snaffle bits and how to use them....Will maintains there are no hard mouths, only a hardened mind ... this would apply to your horse before you found him.....Will's article is worth a read....many of our top western trainers begin training colts using these methods...Will states that you don't "yard" a 1200 lb horse around as they really are sensitive creatures.  

I've been trained in the bitting up experience..have done it and it is a lengthy process.....there are progressive steps to putting a horse, "in the bridle".....

Don't feel that you have failed, you haven't...you're cleaning up after someone elses disastrous mistakes with this horse.   Usually a horse will live "in the moment" but a truly traumatized horse will "rerun" many things in his head...we have to figure out what the triggers are.  Your "Dobbin" is an attractive horse!!  Love the white in his face!!

Answer 6

Well, I wouldn't beat myself up about it. It looks to me like dobbin is a great horse, and sounds like you have and are currently doing everyrhing right. Just because he can't go in a snaffle due to nerve dammage is no big deal. Really, its not your fault. I can understand if you feel bad for him, but you should try to stop mentally abusing yourself. You sound like a very good horsewonam and Dobbin looks happy to work in the second picture.

You are doing western, correct? Well that is what you are doing in the picture (tee hee! lateral movements in a western saddle! I do dressage and am obsessed by it!). It is perfectly fine if you are using a curb bit in western. I would know. I ride one of my friend's horses and we tried him in a snaffle, fearing that the curb was too harsh. I almost died when he tried to run me into a tree. Well, anyway, we put the curb back in with a curb chain and he is Mr. Manners himself now.

Don't worry, everyone has ridden that horse that makes you feel like you are an equestrian invalid. It's not just you. You havce not failed if Dobbin is happier and healthier. That is the main thing: he is out of a horrid situation and into a wonderful one, regaurdless of bits.

I don't think you should try the snaffle again. He is ovbiously a curb bit horse. Don't worry about it.

Well, the moral of the story is that you are not doing anything wrong and just need to stop worrying about it. If you keep having dreams about failing, may i suggest psychotherapy?

Well, god luck with dobbin!