Horse Problem. Please Give Advice.?

Question

I had a really bad thing happen to me just yesterday. I've been working with horses for going on 12 years but i've never seen or dealt with something like this. I've had the horse for 5 months and just yesterday this terrible confusing thing happened. I was walking along in the big arena and with no warning he reared up, the first time i stayed on but then he did it again and up to full height this time and i was thrown. I got right back up on him 5 mins later dismissing the whole thing thinking he was just feeling his oats. We rode once around the ring again and all of a sudden he did it again, this time to full height and i felt his legs giving out underneath us, he fell down with me still on and i slid off the back and he came over almost on me, about 1 inch away. I noticed this time that his ears were plastered on his head when he was rearing as if he was mad. I lunged him after that and he charged at me with his ears down. I dont know what to do please help.

Answer 1

wish i lived closer i would seriously help you

i have been around horses all my life and im an assistant trainer and it sounds to me like this horse has some kind of a pain issue,

did you use any new gear, saddle, bridle, bit.

that could be it but i would get a pro to look at him.

Now im not into hurting horses never in my life will i ever do that but my horse lunged at me with her ears back when i was lunging her and i swatted at her butt with the lounge whip and she never charged at me again

a horse should never come at their master with their ears back that i so disrespectful!! i dont tolerate it!

a horse is an animal your supposed to have and create a bond with. not something thats gonna hurt you in the long run!

Answer 2

The increasing nature of his behavior tells me that this is probably not a saddle fit issue so much as a "get off my back" behavior issue.  You say he has been charging you with his ears back on the ground as well.  Unless you are up to the task of a complete start-over from the ground up, I don't think this will get better, and will probably get worse.

You might want to get a complete medical workup to rule out possible toxicities, orthopedic issues, or metabolic illness as a cause...and if so, I'd do that before getting on him again.

Answer 3

get back on him remember you are the boss. if he acts up try doign a figure 8 or if he is acting up yank back on the reins. or yank left and hold his head close to your kneew until he settle down. or  if he rears yank back to the right and bring him to a hault on the ground and hold his head to your right knee. for about a minute so he will calm down and that will give him the message. then try figure 8s until he is calm and ready.

trust me. I have trained horses for a long time.

Answer 4

hi

i think he could be in pain or sumthing is pinching him like the saddle

also are there any other horses there that he doesnt like that were nearby or sumthing

thats really weird

good luck

Answer 5

oh dear he seems angry  make sure the saddle isnt hurting his back has he ever done this before? he could be dangerous does he behave the same to anyone else?

if he gets worse and you cant find a reson 4 it call your vet

good luck

Answer 6

It sounds to me like you are a pretty knowledgeable horse person.  I think that you are correct in NOT GETTING BACK ON HIM unless or until you find out why he did what he did...a couple of things come to mind, of course, pain is the first one.  Sometimes, a gelding can get along fine with wolf teeth unless it gets dislodged and then really hurts him when the bit is in his mouth...It could be a multitude of things that a vet needs to check out on the pain issue side of it...you mentioned that he was gelded, has he ever given you any reason to make you suspect that he is proud cut?  If so, his harmones could be causing him to react this way, or a combination of that and the pain issue.

EDIT******Yes, some horses are mean, but usually there is a pretty good reason why they are, but that doesn't mean that he isn't being deliberate in trying to hurt you...ears back and flat do not say, "HI, glad to see you today."

Answer 7

First of all - horses DO NOT rear out of meanness, no animal is mean. This sounds like pain or fear. Please get a vet to check him over, as well as a backman to check him over and a saddle fitter to check his tack. Also, a dentist to check his teeth. This sounds like a pain response since it has only just come on. There is definately something wrong with this horse. Get him checked ASAP. I hope he's okay, feel free to email me.

Answer 8

Check all of your tack for fit and imperfections. Horses rearing out of "ornryness":) are really fairly rare and pain/discomfort is usually the cause for that habit like lots of others said.

Answer 9

Because this incident was so abrupt, I highly suspect that this is pain related.  Whether the tack doesn't fit or he has a health issue, I would get him checked out by a vet immediately.  Just because you've been riding him in the same tack for 5 months doesn't mean that it fits.  It could have been bothering him this whole time and he finally exploded over the pain. Just because his ears are back doesn't mean he's being mean - he could be trying to say he's hurting.  

However, you said he "charged at you" while you were lunging him and is generally bossy on the ground. This is concerning. I'm not saying that pain has nothing to do with the rearing, because i highly suspect it does, but I also think that he's figured out how to reign over you.  Sometimes it will take a horse a few months to settle into their new home before they become confident enough to fight for alpha position.  You are probably just now seeing how dominant he really is, and he's slowly figured out how to take advantage of you.  Horses are seriously smarter than most people think.  If you give them an inch, they'll take a mile.  They learn how to read your body language and they will get away with whatever they can.  If you don't start cracking down and DISCIPLINING this horse, he can BECOME dangerous.  

No horse is "too dangerous" to ride unless you let him become too dangerous.  Trust me - I have a mustang that is the most dominant horse I've ever seen.  Not to mention the smartest. When we tried to put him with another gelding in the pasture, he literally tried to kill him.  He also "charged" at me on the lunge line when I first got him, and in the saddle he would randomly bolt and take off with me.  Luckily he came to the right home, and my trainer and I have been working intensely on his manners.  It's been about 6 or 7 months and he can now be ridden comfortably in a large pasture at the walk and trot without bolting.  

My point is, that you may have gotten an extremely dominant horse without realizing it.  He is not impossible or too dangerous to ride, he just needs extreme training. And he always will.  Even if you have a professional come out and train him for you, as long as you still let him get away with slight things, he will always test you.  And by slight, I mean SLIGHT. For example, if my mustang bolted to the left, if i could not force his head back around to the right before I made him stop, he knew he could get away with something.  It didn't matter if I circled him back around to the left, he would know he got away with something.  

My suggestion is to first, get him checked out by a vet. Make sure he is in no pain.  Then, hire a professional trainer to help you.  Not only should he work with the horse, but he should help you understand certain things you'll need to do with the horse to keep him under control.

Good luck, I hope this helped.

Answer 10

How old is the horse and what is his history?  Have you ridden him much in the past 5 months you owned him?  He could be in pain of some sort and that is how he is showing you.  Maybe his back in sore and he is trying to get you off.  I might have a vet come check and see if there is anything wrong with him physically.  I have a horse that reared up on me and fell over on top of me.  Looking back it was my fault because I did not pay attention to the signs.  He did not want to go forward so I closed my aids. Shortened my reins and put my legs on him.  This left him with no choice and he went straight up a couple of times and I only got madder instead of working throug it with him.  If I had opened my reins and asked him to move to the side or something else it would have saved me a life time of pain.  I was very scared when I first got back to riding him and he learned that if he stopped and tossed his head I would get nervous and not make him do anything.  Now that I have grown up I have worked with him and it took a while to teach him that I was no longer scared of him.  I had a lot to correct.  When he would stop and start tossing his head I would turn him a bit and make him walk.  Holding a crop helped me be a little more assertive. So if he is scaring you then it might be best for someone else to work with him and help you out.  Try to look back open minded and evaluate why and what happened.

Best of luck

Answer 11

I have had a horse buck and rear because their was a tiny prickle digging into his back. but he didnt charge at me.

maybe just maybe there was something stuck under his girth or blanket...

Answer 12

it depends on what you were doing a the time - walk trot, on the reins or were the reins loose - it could be his teeth, and have  a vet qualified to do teeth not a dentist, he should be sedated and looked at using a speculam,  if hes got sores and ulcers in his mouth that would make him react that way, also make sure you are not pulling on his mouth and make sure his bridle is fitted -try him with a halter and no bridle and see if there is something going on with his bit, it could be he is playing with the bit and its catching him /pinching him ..

Answer 13

Saddle fit, or some pain issue of some kind.

I would seriously have someone professional look at this horses back and saddle before I hop on again.

EDIT- the only 2 times I have ever had animals rear, were pain issues... horse#1 was saddle fitting, Mule#1 was ulcers/saddle fitting.  

If pain isn't a consideration per the vet/chiro/fitter, sell the horse, its not worth it and be honest with the buyers.  I wouldn't even waste my time selling it in todays market, I would probabaly have it put down once all avenues were exhausted.

I hope some answer pops up for you.

Answer 14

First things first.  I hope you seriously discipline the horse for charging you.  That is a serious no no.  Any horse willing to charge its owner or another human regardless of the reason needs to be taught not to or put down.  No exceptions.  You must NEVER make an excuse for that behavior.  It could get you or someone else killed.

Second, there is a serious problem here.  I suggest either the saddle does not fit properly and is causing pain, or the horse has a condition where pain is caused when he is ridden.  Sometimes these horses are unridable.

If the horse is not in pain then it is a mental thing with the horse.  Despite what some people say...sometimes it IS the horse.  I have seen a few horses that were absolutely crazy under the saddle and could never be ridden or trusted.  They would ride fine for the longest time and then decide they wanted you off and would do whatever it took to get you off.  One arab I knew would do that until a VERY experienced trainer got him.  The trainer actually kept him from rearing for three days straight.  That was a record for that horse so the trainer thought he had the problem licked.  Before that he would pitch his fits every twenty or thirty minutes.  Just when the trainer thought he had it, the horse reared and fell over backwards fifteen minutes into the ride.

Answer 15

The fact that the horse repeated the rearing and took it to the point of actually falling with you, probably intentionally, tells me this horse had or has a serious problem.  This sounds very dangerous.  I applaud you for knowing when you need help, and asking for it.  

What is this horse's history?  How old is he?  What kind of training does he have?  He might have been someone else's "training problem" that you unknowingly "inherited".  

I would check your saddle fit closely, but I would also suspect given how fast the horse went from never doing this before to falling, he has done this before; please seek a professional to evaluate this horse and advise you before you place yourself in danger again.  Rearing, especially when its already become rearing and falling, is really not to be taken lightly.  

Someone said to "pull back on the reins".  Please don't do that.  Pulling back can cause a horse to rear.  If the horse is rearing, something is wrong and I would sort it out from the ground for safety.  

Some horses try rearing as an "experiment" but it sounds like this horse has gone beyond that.  Asking the horse to go forward; he cannot rear and go forward at the same time.  But even tight turns can cause falling if that's what he is thinking about doing.  

Check your saddle fit, try to find someone who can help you in person; and see what you can do to work with this horse from the ground.  

Another thought:  Could he have been objecting to your bit?  Can you try using less bit, or a ring snaffle?  Its possible you might have mis-cued him; its not unheard of for people to teach a horse to rear, but it sounds to me like the horse was really objecting to something.  You need to figure out both what that something was, and why, before you can know the best way to handle the problem.  

I would try Natural Horsemanship for this horse - such as Parelli - but I would not ride him until I had done some extensive assessment and ground work first, this cannot be a quick fix.  

Even if the problem does turn out to be your saddle or bit, you still have another, bigger problem; the horse repeated the behavior, he fell, and you came off of him.  Now he knows that worked.  Please be very careful with this horse, because at any point he might try this again.  

If this horse is a stallion, a lot of your problem may be solved if you geld him.  (Be aware however that it can take several months for the hormones to leave a gelding's system after being gelded).   If he is a gelding, you might ask your vet whether he thinks the horse was "proud cut" or incompletely gelded, thus still exhibits some stallion behaviors.  If that is the case, you will have to handle him as if he were a stallion, and he needs an expert.  

But, this horse is probably not being mean; he 's probably trying to establish dominance over you.  You said he's coming at you on line on the ground; you need to drive him away from you on line correctly to teach him that is unacceptable.  This can be done safely and will make a big difference.  You would just need to learn how to do it, and take things slowly with this horse.  

I believe Natural Horsemanship is your best possible solution. This is not an insurmountable problem but it is a very serious one.  Stay safe and good luck.

Answer 16

Do not ride him.

Get the vet out.

The last time I heard something like this it was an event horse that had an undiscovered tear in it's rectal wall and had (I think it was) septicemia. They had him put down.

I hope that's not the answer with your horse but I'd definitely get it checked out.

Answer 17

The horse might have some training issues and might be able to get away with rearing because he won't be ridden anymore.

If you've never dealt with a rearing horse DO NOT get back on the horse. I don't want to see the horse flip over with you, it'll hurt both you AND the horse. If you can't work with this horse, contact a professional trainer, but before that contact your vet.

He might have an overbalance of hormones or some sort of chemical inbalance, I've known it to make horses act "mean". Is he a gelding or a stallion? If he's a gelding he may be proud-cut and have a hormonal inbalance, same goes for if he's a stallion.

So my reccommendation? Vet first. The second thing you should consider/look at is whether he's worked in the ring before (if so and he was ok with it, who knows) did you lounge with a whip when you normally don't? He may have been charging at the whip not you. If you're afraid of this horse or worried he might do something bad, just please don't deal with it and find a professional trainer to consult.

I'd do what I could to help you, but I'm in South Dakota, so I don't think I'd be a lot of help, lol.

You can work on some lounging to get control of him, free lounging in a round-pen, but if he charges be CAREFUL. When you go to catch him does he stand facing you or does he swing his hindquarters towards you? If he does he's being dominant. Maybe you lounged him with tack on and it upset him? I'd definately have to say it's probably a vet thing if he's acting that nasty or a serious training problem. Look into what you did recently that you haven't been doing and possibly contact the old owners and ask them how they road him, with other horses, in an arena or in the open, etc. Maybe he's ticked cause he's not with other horses?

Good luck, hun, and no matter what happens be safe. Have the horse vetted first for homones. Be safe.

Answer 18

well i would have the vet come out and check his back, teeth, and anything else that might be causing that. If there is nothing wrong there you should have your saddle, bridle, and your bit be checked to see if they are hurting him at all. And if there is nothing wrong then you should call the previous owner and ask if there was any incident like this before with then, and if they say no or something like that you should call a professional trainer if it occurs again and get some advice on how to handle this.

Well hope you are alright and best wishes from Sabrina and Phoebe

Answer 19

Sounds like a physical/pain issue.  With such dangerous and unusual behavior, you should have realized this.  Your decision to lunge this horse at this time was a very poor one and was WRONG.  It is not him being "mean".  He obviously has some issues that need to be addressed by a vet or other professional.  Best thing would be to leave him alone until someone resolves this.  Unfortunately, "years dealing with horses" does not always mean "successful horse handling".  Too bad you could not recognize the possible problems and the appropriate ways to handle them.  You and the horse are lucky you survived.  Avoid such in the future.   Hope you find some help.

Answer 20

if he has NEVER acted like that before then it'sprobably just a pain issue.. check his bridle, and saddle make sure they aren't causing pain or pinching..

and if you still can't find anything checkhis back by putting pressure alonghis spine

maybe his teeth? have a vet check him

maybe he was just moody?

call the previous ownersand talk to them about it

Answer 21

Get professional help! I'd recommend a Parelli Professional near you. Check out www.parelli.com for more info, and to find an instructor! They work wonders!

Answer 22

was it busy there when it happened? something might have been going on that he saw from the corner of his eyes that might have scared him or made him mad or some sort. its a good thing you got back on him, because if he was just rearing because he didnt want you on him, he needs to learn that he cant do that.. if this never happened before i think something might have just spooked him. or he might have been hurt or his girth might have been too tight?

idk, i hope youre ok. good luck

Answer 23

Sounds like you need a trainer to handle this situation.  IF there's one at the barn where you board, consult them.  If NOT then call around in your area and find out if they will take this horse on.

You may want to run your fingers down his backbone from the start of his withers all the way down to his dock (Tail) and see if you notice him flinching or moving away from your touch.  IF he moves away, then chances are that he's pulled something either in his stall or out in pasture.  If so, then see if you can find a horse chiropractor and see if they can put him back on tract and if not, THEN call your vet.

IF he vets out fine, then I suggest that you try using a standing martingale or "tie down" (Depending upon which discipline you ride.  That will make sure he can't get the leverage to go up again.

Answer 24

Once you have ruled out saddle, bitting, teeth or any other pain issues then you need to try and think if anything has changed in his routine that could upset him, horses dont just go from being kind considerate loving creatures to mean dangerous ones.

People change them. I would try and find out if there is anyone in your area that does natural horsemanship. There is a great guy who does it around my area in london and he can ride horses bridleless that no1 can ride.

check for pain or changes to his diet/lifestyle first.

I really hope you manage to solve this problem before you or the horse get hurt.

I dont agree with turning their heads to our knee, as you said thats what made him fall over.

Good luck :-)