Horsepower results on nationwide cars released?

Question

on the nationwise pre-race show on espn, they showed the following graphic showing the results (by rank) of the tests run on the 10 nationwide series cars that had their engines impounded last week:

rankings (7700-8700 rpm average)

1. #99 - toyota - michael waltrip racing

2. #18 - toyota - joe gibbs racing

3. #17 - ford - roush fenway racing

4. #16 - ford - roush fenway racing

5. #20 - toyota - joe gibbs racing

6. #2 - chevy - richard childress racing

7. #40 - dodge - chip ganassi racing

8. #9 - dodge - ray evernham racing

9. #88 - chevy - jr motorsports/hms

10. #11 - chevy - cjm racing

i notice keselowski, who is second in the points standings had nearly the worst horsepower results averaged over that key rpm range. clint bowyer - ranked first in the points standings - is in the car ranked sixth in the horsepower ratings. and surprise, surprise, the #20 was ranked fifth in the horsepower ratings. heck, even mwr and roush ranked higher.

so, what's everyone's excuse going to be now?

Answer 1

**** nascar they are like our government they have to much power to do what ever the h**l they want this b.s dude i  hate toyota i say the DOMESTIC cars need to band together and start  wrecking those toyota's

Answer 2

Thanks for the info, no excuses now but there will still be those who are in denial.....great post!

You tell 'em Rowdy..like it or not..numbers do not lie!!!

WTG!

ROFLMAO..Good answer Winter..still laughing at monkey powers...can we purchase it in a jar or is it a cream... hehehehhee

Answer 3

Glad to see some type of results. Are there any  links that shows the actual differences per car yet? That will tell a better story.

Good find on that info though.

Also are there any plans on doing the same tests in the cup series too?

That's impressive for Brad to be that high in the points and rated that much lower in horsepower. He might need to be in a cup car. But then again those cup cars are different animals.

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I wonder why NASCAR hasn't yet approved the new R07 engine for Chevy yet for the Nationwide series?  Why are they holding up Chevy's request to approve their engine? Are they scared that Chevy may have a 17 horsepower gain over Toyota when all is said and done? From the numbers you posted that would seem to be the horsepower gain Toyota has over the Chevys "in that one particular race.

http://autoracingsport.com/nascar/chevy-...

Here is a question addressing why NASCAR hasn't approved the R07 engines and I quote:

"Chad, I'd like to know if NASCAR has given your team a reason why they are holding off approval of the new R07 engine in the Nationwide series?

Terri,

Palm Bay, Fla.

Walter: We really don't have a reason why our National Guard Chevrolets aren't using the new R07 engines yet. We just want to compete with the other manufacturers on an even playing field within the current rules. The R07 does that while the SB2 does not.

Also, the RO7 comes at a higher price tag than the current SB2. With all of the other proposed changes [COT style chassis, most notably] that NASCAR is reviewing for the Nationwide series, the RO7 would really hit some of the under-budgeted teams hard."

http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/ico...

Answer 4

i dont have an excuse if chevy dont run good in a race                  i call it a bad day

Answer 5

Waltrip is finally a winner again

Congrats Mikey!!!!

Answer 6

that's quite a wide R.P.M. range for producing peak H.P. I'm surprised NASCAR doesn't narrow the R.P.M. range of the peak H.P. Too bad there isn't as much as a concern of the torque vs. R.P.M. Then we could really see who has the advantage. With a 1000 R.P.M. differential as high as 8700 R.P.M. a higher tire inflation could give you quite an advantage on the super speedways. (increased tire diameter) I kind of wish these technicians would take advantage of this information, because i'm bursting at the seams to contact one of these racing divisions and give them some extra fuel for their fire. It's not only the driver, but you can actually have a better performing car with less peak H.P. at a different R.P.M. range. Simply depending on the engines induction system.And that seems to be one of those gray areas that you can get your performance gain.

Answer 7

Thats hilarious the excuses that are already being posted...   Sad that even in the light of facts, there are still deniers.

Answer 8

Nascar will say those are lies because they dont want to lose Toyota.

Answer 9

I'm surprised to see MWR in first, maybe Mikey can finally get a win!

Answer 10

But it does prove that the Toyotas have more horsepower, but like you said Keselowski is almost last in rpm but second in points which means the boys can drive and Jr is a good car owner.

Answer 11

They will say "Those results are fake!!! NASCAR is lying because they want Toyota to win!! I HATE TOYOTA!!"

That is parity right there

3 Toyota

3 Chevy

2 ford

2 Dodge

in the top 10...should be no complaining other than the xenophobes

645-628 that's CLOSE horsepower between the top 10 cars. But some people will never give credit where credit is due.

Answer 12

It would be interesting to see the HP difference still, but this is showing that Toyota does have the most HP.

But to take in consideration with the points standing compared to HP, you are not taking into consideration that circumstances (wrecks, DNF's and so on) help points standings, car set ups effects point standings and talent effects it.  Although Toyota has the top 2 spots in HP, and Ford is #2, only proves just that, they have more HP.  But how you get that power to the wheels and turn it into better lap times is the key.

It'll be intersting to see if NA$CAR has the balls to release the cup cars HP at Indy.

edit: #18 fan - We havign a bad day??? I can only assume at this point that your following statement is directed toward me since I'm the only one that brought up these points:

"and yes, i am fully aware that the points standings and these rankings are not correlated one-to-one. i have master's and c.phil. degrees in theoretical neurobiology and computational science, and a b.a. in the history of science and understand the difference between causation and correlation."

In your original statement you did not take any of my points into consideration, regaurdless of how many degrees you have, it wasnt taken into consideration.

I want the playing field leveled out as a fan and I'm tired of NA$CAR bending their own rules to accomidate a struggling manufactor.  Even when it was done in the past, I was vocally against it.  Fans are smart enough to know, that you dont go from a horrible first year to a run-away 2nd year.  The only thing that changed with Toyota is the adding of JGR, although JGR is a powerhouse, they are NOT going to make that big of a differance with a motor.

My beef with this is not with JGR, or Toyota or any Toyota driver, my beef with this is NA$CAR.  What ever it takes to bring that money in, they are happy, reguardless of how anyone here wants to slice it.

Toyota has had a clear advantage in the truck seris for years, now they have it in the Busch and Cup.  Do I think there is cheating going on, I've always been the one to say, if you aint cheating you aint trying, but that's with every team, not just Toyota.

HP is regualted by NA$CAR, and its time they step up to the plate and level the playing field.  Even 1 HP, makes a differance when you get it to the wheels.  And I'm sure that Toyota is working within the box, but the box needs to be made bigger for Ford, Chevy and Dodge.

Answer 13

hmm...I'm even a little surprised by that.

How interesting. The 99?  Perhaps it's because it has a Roush swaybar? (sorry, that was bad)

It's the anticipation of what the new excuse will be that's the fun part. Oooh...I hope it's a good one, I could use a good laugh.

That 20 car apparently has some kind of magical monkey powers, I've been hearing about it all week, lol...

Answer 14

I hate Toyota! I LOVE CHEVY! :)

Go Dale Jr.!!!

JUNIOR NATION!!!

Answer 15

Lots of people have had lots of practice making excuses each time Junior loses. I'm sure they have contributed to the anti-Toyota bandwagon!

Answer 16

They will say "liar liar pants on fire".  

lol  j/k

Well you know there are going to be those claiming conspiracy anyway.   And Mikey Waltrip has the most horsepower? Just goes to show it isn't the car but the driver.   Kyle is talented.

Answer 17

One test from one race doesn't show enough data in my opinion, but it's what we have soooo......

The 99 has a mediocre driver in it, and  the 18 ran away from the field all night........ Look at the dyno results. Are you surprised? Horsepower does matter.

As far as the 20 being ranked low in the test, the 20 was not terribly impressive that night so I'm not surprised. What has the 20 dyno'd all year??? We'll never know. One test doesn't show what's happened all year. This set of dyno's shows exactly what everyone has been saying......Toyotas do have more power. That wouldn't even matter, but the feeling is that the rules are in their favor to do exactly that. Any particular reason every manufacturer isn't allowed to run a cup version of their engines in this series?

Not an excuse, just reality.

Mark Martin fan....... Although it would truly show reality, the numbers you desire will never be made public.

Answer 18

Mind you, this is a horsepower test after a race.  It has no real bearing on engines or engine builders potential over all.  It has only shown at the end of one race how much power was in that particular engine alone.  

Act my comment wasn't to prove Chevy needs to be defended but that JGR might have actually got crapped on in that particular highlight of happenings.

There is no doubt that Toyota got the advantage this year, nor is it any doubt that Chevy is getting its hiney handed back to them, bout time.  

Just look at the past 5 years for HMS race after race a HMS car would disappear back into the pack to 32 or worse and in the last 50 laps all the sudden be in the lead.  They sandbagged.  Year before last they had the better engine and mid year appealed to NASCAR to let them change packages and was approved, for even more horsepower advantages.  

Now that other teams have the advantage, every HMS fan wants EQUAL engines.  Every since the day the first V8 was made there was differences.  There has been specific characteristics that make one engine perform differantly than another.  You take a 302 Chevy and a Boss 302, both were wild and willing race horses but because the Chevy 302 was first and winning, Ford had to redesign the heads on their engine for a bigger valvetrain and hince the better engine was born.  The Chevy still had better horsepower on the dyno but the Boss had much better bottom end and top RPM.  

This is the trend all through the years Ford 427ci to the Chevy 427ci to the Chrysler 426.  There was no comparison between the 3, Chrysler was the daddy and Ford the runner up followed by Chevy.  Ford tried to answer with the 427SOHC but was denied by NASCAR to run the engine, but on the drag strips it destroyed the 426 Hemi.  Was that fair, not really.  Ford wasn't even given a chance to put that engine into a car, NASCAR just stated it wasn't going to be put into the series and that was that...

Answer 19

Was this done on a chassis dyno? I want to see all of the parasitic loss numbers for components like clutch, transmission, driveshaft, and rear differential. I also want to know what the BSFC (brake specific fuel consumption) numbers were, head flow numbers from the flow bench, ignition timing, carburetor jetting, atmospheric pressure, spark plug heat range, spark plug reading results, peak torque@ what RPM, there are many numbers that we need to know, other than the BHP numbers to see if this is a TRUE test of parity, and not just deflated numbers on the part of the Toyota motors, with these nuances affecting the way the mototrs perform.