How can a hydrogen booster work?

Question

Anyone know if an electrolysis hydrogen booster violates the first law of thermodynamics? If it does please explain.

Answer 1

no.

and it doesn't violate Boyle's law either.

however, it doesn't apply.

thermo laws apply to closed systems, which an automobile engine clearly is not.

all that said, as applied to automobiles, clearly such devices consume more energy than they produce.

otherwise you'd have a perpetual motion machine, which you cannot.

Answer 2

Adam is right, plus the water vapor produced seems to clean up carbon deposits in the engine. Many people report brown exhaust vapor for a while after conversion.

Hydrolysing water on the fly isn't easy to do. The cathodes corrode quickly. It's a shame, because there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that it does raise fuel economy a bit.

Answer 3

It doesn't work.

Answer 4

Just as the answerer above said, an engine is not a closed system, so hydrogen boosters dont break any laws of thermodynamics.

And contrary to what he said, the hydrogen boosters do not claim perpetual motion, they only increase the gas mileage.

In my studies, they work. I believe the reason is because the water vapor generated after the burn off of the hydrogen reduces combustion temperature, and also salvages a quantity of waste heat as the water expands into steam. Considering that over half of the energy in a vehicle is being wasted as heat, this cooling affect is where the extra gas mileage is coming from.

Also take into consideration that because Hydrogen burns hotter and faster than gas, the same (or more) horse power is generated from the hydrogen assisted combustion, without additional heat.

Answer 5

Well first off you are looking at it wrong. You are not running your car on hydrogen. You are using the hydrogen and oxygen to help burn the fuel you are all ready dumping into your engine. That black soot you see in your tail pipe is unburned fuel unburned fuel is unused fuel. When you see them big over the road trucks with the big black clouds flowing out of them big chrome stacks. Well them big black clouds are unburned fuel, and unburned fuel is unused fuel. Now what happens if you burn ALL of your fuel. Four things happen in your combustion chamber when your engine is running. First oxygen and fuel enter into the cylinder during the intake stroke. This is when the piston is moving downward. Second when the piston is on its upward compression stroke it is compressing the mixture of wet fuel and oxygen. That's rite your fuel is NOT in vapor form it is still in liquid form. Gasoline vapors ignite far faster than gasoline in liquid form. For example if you remove one spark plug wire and start your engine. Let it run for a min or so then pull that spark plug and look at it . It will be wet with gasoline that is where the term flooded came from. Now it gets compressed with the oxygen. Now just before TDC top dead center. The fuel is ignited keep in mind that your fuel is still wet not a vapor. As the fuel burns it forces the piston downward this is the power stroke. Next is the exhaust stroke this is when your piston is moving upward and pushing all of the exhaust out of the cylinder. Giving us all four strokes of our engine. In theory our fuel is burned, reality on the other hand is far different. Our fuel did NOT fully burn or even fully ignite that is called Carbon deposits. What is carbon? carbon is fuel that did NOT burn completely. This is why we need to replace the catalytic convert from time to time as it becomes clogged with unburned fuel. What is the catalytic converter?. It is under your vehicle in the exhaust system. It's job is to burn off ALL of your unburned fuel  exiting your engine as (((waste))) unused waste. Remember unburned fuel  is just that unused fuel . Now if we mix a bit more oxygen into the combustion chamber to help the fuel burn more complete. Some hydrogen to burn as a supplement fuel and help ignite the fuel we already have. Because Hydrogen ignites faster and easier than gasoline or diesel fuel. Now we are using ALL of our fuel giving us a more complete burn and the complete burn gives us more power. With more power we are pushing down on the throttle less . There for using less fuel and creating far less pollution, as we no longer send unused fuel out the exhaust as waste. Your mileage is better because you are now using ALL of your fuel not just part of it. So it does take energy to produce hydrogen that is a fact. It is also a fact that you have a converter on your car to burn off UNBURNED fuel that is a fact. What it comes down to is this how much energy are you wasting because of unburned fuel?. So your gains are NOT from running your car on hydrogen. Your gains are from the wasted energy that you are able to recover. My 97 S10 with a 4.3 V6 gained 133 miles per tank of gasoline. I have a 19 gallon tank that comes out to about 7 mpg I was able to recover from wasted unburned gasoline exiting my exhaust. Now If I saw zero gains that would tell me that my car was running at 100% efficiency. But as we all know there is no car out there running at 100% efficiency. My S10 on its own is running somewhere around 63% efficient. The hydrogen is simply assisting in a complete or close to complete burn of ALL of my fuel

Answer 6

the first law says, you can't get more out than you put in, yet a 59% increase in mileage claimed would violate the first law.

Second law says, heck with getting more out, you can't even break even.

The third says you lose everytime you do energy conversions.

Lets count the number of energy convesion steps in a electrolysis.

1. engine burns fuel

2. engine rotates alternator

3. altrenator generates electrical

4. voltage regulator converts AC to DC

5. Current passes through electrolytes

6 H2 and O2 created

7 gases flow to engine

7 steps, each losing entropy and mechanical/electro/chemical friction

Answer 7

I am not sure if it violates the first law of thermodynamics or not. What I do know is this. The gas the wife puts in her tank is paid for with my checking account. Before she had a booster on her lumina  it was costing me $85 a week in gas. That is how much money was being taken out of the checking account every week for gas in her car. Now she is only using $55 a week in gas. Her trips are not changing she is still going to work 5 days a week. Still travels to see the kids and grand kids every other day. She is using $30 less in fuel every week. I don't keep track of the mileage and I have no idea what her mileage even is.  

Answer 8

it works, you just have to be able to control your amount of fuel going into your carb., trottle body, or injecters. its pretty tricky with cars that have computers, but with a carb., its easy. you lean your fuel down, and compensate with the browns gas coming from your booster. use a bubbler or some other type of anti flasback, to prevent a backfire from the carb. if it occurs. dont let these people who dont think it works, tell you anything different, they havent tried it, and are too scarred to think to try, they just talk. just check out some youtube videos and its pretty simple.  

Answer 9

NO one addressed the fact that internal combustion engines waste a large percentage of the fuel used. Thats why they put cataylitic converters to burn it up. Add HHO to the air mixture and you burn up the wasted fuel. this adds mileage. I betcha noone in this chat have used one of these devices. Mine is not connected yet. btw use all stainless steel parts and they dont corrode for a very long time.

go to youtube and search HHo. you'll be amazed at the info you get from people not selling stuff.

Answer 10

Once you do the math you'll find that at best you'll get back at best 20% of the energy you put in back as hydrogen.

In order for that small amount of hydrogen to make up for that energy loss the hydrogen would have to increase the output of your engine from 3% to 15% overall. That is if your engine is 20% efficient hydrogen would have to increase that to 23% to 35% to make the MPG increase that is claimed by the sites.

Basically it don't work, otherwise we would see this device on new cars, and for those of you to believe that the auto companies are in bed with big oil, race cars.

If anyone could increase the efficiency by 3 to 15% with a simple device like this you'd see them on every car where someone is trying to increase the performance of the car.

For a hundred dollars or two, I could take a 400 HP motor and increase it from anywhere 12 to 60 HP. So lest say $100 for the device that works out to about $8.33 to $1.66 per HP that's very cheap. That's what would have to happen to get the fuel mileage increases that are claimed. That is something that is very easy to test for, and its been tested and it fails.