How can men disagree with women here without angering them?

Question

Especially when objecting to radical feminists, how can we avoid not angering fair minded feminists? It seems whenever we use the word feminist, it both hurts and angers a lot of women.

Perhaps it's my touch as I can be more gentle and fair minded myself. Kindly forgive me, my grammar is not that great and I am not as educated as others. I was just wondering so we might avoid name calling (ok Utopia...I agree.)

Answer 1

We can agree to disagree.

Clueless men and angry women.

Some people use anger as a tactic to get their own way.

Sometimes the truth hurts, both men and women.

Answer 2

All this is virtually impossible to do, sorry to say. Feminism does not allow dissent any more than naziism did.

Many women here on GWS wrap themselves in the feminism label whether they are or not. But the real feminists are in comfortable offices at Fem HQ making money hand over fist writing the feminist rule book and manipulating their foot soldiers.

Answer 3

1. Be gramatically correct. Maybe I'm being picky about this, but poor grammar is simply an annoyance.

2. Be realistic. Too many arguments in recent weeks have been straw men; knocking them down is barely even fun.

3. Pick your battles. Some men here go on and on about the evils of things that even feminists oppose, then act as if feminists not only approve of them, but thought them up.

Answer 4

Just say I am right and you are not so shut the h**l up and what are they gonna do if they are angry at you, then stay angry.

Answer 5

Oh if you disagree with reason, with good argument and with good manners, why not?  I know alot of women love a good sensible argument.

Answer 6

When you want to disagree, first note all the things you agree on. Then point out the one or two things you disagree about. This is the time-honored way of disagreeing without making a woman angry.

Answer 7

Its not possible, you must agree with them even when they are wrong or face being labelled as a misogynist.

Answer 8

I would suggest not trying to make it sound as if being a woman is a happy experience and being a man is the hardest thing in the world, like a lot of people here do. Rape, periods, child-birth, loss of virginity, less pay for same work, spiked heels, corsets, degrading language, abuse etc... etc... are things that I'm sure most men can not deal with or would refuse to deal with ever.

It's amazing how many times I see people here use the word respect in relation to men when it is women who have been DISRESPECTED since the dawn of time.

To my knowledge women have always respected men but men have not always and apparently generally still don't RESPECT women.

Answer 9

They could TRY not reporting every single question I post that would be a start. ...

Answer 10

Normal happy women are always ready to listen to you and even disagree respectfully. Whereas, when you disagree with a femminist, for whom ANY OTHER opinion that they dont believe in is outlandish, one comes off as a misogynist. So either you agree with ALL things that femminists can say/think of, or get ready to be reported/deleted. Thats just the way it is.

Besides, there are more things that can anger a femminist than there are things that can make them cheerful. When you start talking about femminists, your already walking on quicksand.

Answer 11

By using real arguments rather than insults (unless someone insults you) and actually listening to the responses you get. Then you might get a better debate than this:

"Why do you all hate men?!"

"We don't."

"Why would you say that if you didn't really hate us?"

"We told you, we don't hate men."

"But you're feminists, so you're either lying or brainwashed!"

Thanks for asking.

Answer 12

That is a question that has no answer and probably never will.

Answer 13

People are supposed to differ it is what makes this world such a beautiful place.

We do not grow absolutely, chronologically. We grow sometimes in one dimension, and not in another; unevenly. We grow partially. We are relative. We are mature in one realm, childish in another. The past, present, and future mingle and pull us backward, forward, or fix us in the present. We are made up of layers, cells, and constellations.

We are all formed from the same matter; we are all primarily with the same basic needs in life. I don’t understand why it is so hard to care about everyone as you do yourself; we are all the same fundamentally, contrasting values are not a crime. We have got to listen to each other and respect every individual way of thinking; it is the only way to progress.

Answer 14

Excellent question!

First, thank you for posing the question and trying to begin a dialogue that is most certainly needed on this DBoard as well as every other electronic posting venue out there ... and, as we all know, in nearly every interaction between men and women ... there is still much to be said for civil discourse and, in my view at least, it need not be considered a reserve for Utopia ... we can simply ask of it from each other and, when not respected or reciprocated, then practice using one of the  most powerful responses available to us ... ignore (just say no) the person unwilling or incapable of engaging a civil dialogue.

Without hesitation, I know I have strong opinions (that I do my best to support with facts) and I expect the same (opinions) from any one of the 6.7 billion people who inhabit our earth ... however, when an opinion is unexamined or clearly stated as a means of taunting and provoking, of moving the discourse from a reasonable and civil position to one of name-calling, shouting-over, bullying, or other such infantile posturing then, in my view, there's no need to continue ...

I have no need to convince a neanderthal that our species has evolved and progressed to a point in history where dialogue is absolutely necessary for problem-solving and decision-making.

I have no need to continue an exchange with anyone that uses the conversational convenience of "labels" to disparage or denigrate another ... or undermines a point with a "talking point" lifted from some radio or TV show by an equally unexamined politico or pundit.

As far as my reply to your pivotal question of "... how can we avoid not angering fair minded feminists"? I believe the key to that is to literally "shut-out" the shouting, "ignore" the less than fair-minded, "pay no heed" to anyone who cannot engage the dialogue within the harbors of reasonable and civil conversation.

At a minimum, in my view, I believe the tide can be shifted by simply ignoring the provocateurs whose points are hollow, whose voice is an echo from another provocateur ... in fact, I'm often stunned by the time and effort evident in a well-thought, tailored reply to a name-caller, as if the reply was to (hopefully) have an effect or affect on that person.

At some level, if the reasonable, civil, and fair-minded simply focused their attention and corresponding replies on the issue at hand -and truly ignored the flame-throwing, primal replies from unexamined posters, in short time, those particular posters lose interest and shift their attention elsewhere ... think about it for a moment- if we could succeed at shuting out -simply by "not attending to"- the unreasonable, the uncivil, the less-than-fair-minded, then they will take their brand of dialogue elsewhere ... and then, in a quite Utopian sense- one day all those uninformed, name-calling, reactionaries are facing off against each other on the same post on the same DBoard ... now therin lies justice!

Answer 15

Since joining G&WS I've found that its impossible to have a reasonable conversation with anyone who calls themselves a feminist. Unless you agree with the dictionary definition of feminism (i.e. purely as an aid to equality for women) they will hate your guts and call you a woman-hater.

Fair minded feminists? The women who want equality and who have any awareness of how much misandry there is in the feminist movement do not call themselves feminists.

Answer 16

How can you disagree with a n**i without angering them?

It is a well known fact that feminists dont tolerate dissent.

Normal women do, however. They'll listen to you.

Answer 17

All feminists are radical. If a man does not agree with anything and everything the feminst wants, there is *nothing* that can be said to stop her from anger.

Answer 18

Maybe you should use the word "Misandrist" instead of grouping feminists into a microcosm of radical sentiment.

Answer 19

Well, if the word "feminists" angers...just don't use it; but continue to try to be mindful of those who are fair-minded.

Answer 20

why do you care what others think? you will be damned if you do, and damned if you don't. voice your opinion. some will approve while others will not.

Answer 21

I honestly don't care about upsetting those that would care more about the rights of some but not of the rights of everyone.

Feminism is not an equaltarian movement. It started off as a women's right movement but is morphing into a female supremacy movement. So I give them as much respect as I would a skinhead or any other bigoted movement.

    

But there is a difference between speaking your mind and being rude and insulting. I try to avoid it, but sometimes reality just doesn't allow for niceties. And words can seem harsh but often the truth hurts.

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As a side note: Have you ever heard of a fair minded n**i? or a fair minded Klan's person?

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+ Why should I treat women like little children? There people just like me(well maybe not just like but all the same) with there own strengths and weakness's, likes and dislikes.

      If a human being can't stand open debate or the fact someone doesn't think like them then the Internet is a place they shouldn't be.

Answer 22

Why do you care if you anger people or not?  personally, I don't give a d**n.  Why do you want to be gentle and fair minded?  To what purpose?

Answer 23

I like this question, because it's one of the rare times I've seen someone attempt to find ways to actually ameliorate the ways in which we communicate with one another in G&WS.

The only question I have, is what do you mean by radical feminists? Different people have different definitions of what a radical feminist constitutes. What you might define to be a "fair minded feminist" could be defined by others as a radical feminist. One might define a feminist to be radical in her thinking, if she dares not shave her armpits. That same feminist however, may identify with, and support MRA.

People here often obsess with "radical feminism" and I don't think we have a collective understanding or agreement of what it actually means. I think THAT (and the fact that there are some supreme idiots) has a significant role in the anger that is often experienced here.

As a group, we also often generalise, which always tends to aggravate anyone who doesn't fit the stereotype or assumption about a group of people. As Mo mentioned in another thread, we are not homogenous in our views, just because we might identify with a particular issue. There will be commonalities, but we must be careful not to make assumptions. Perhaps one way to improve relations here, could be to be mindful of the ways in which we pose our questions, and to be as specific and clear as possible, when posing and answering questions.

Obviously however, trolls will be trolls and that won't change in a hurry. :-)