How can people complain about the quality of public education without considering teacher salaries?

Question

Does anyone believe that we can hire highly effective teachers with the current teacher salary schedules? let alone math and science teachers? We complain about public schools and lacking quality teachers, and yet we pay teachers very little. Then we complain about being unable to fill math and science positions knowing full well that the private sector offers almost double the salary. Is it not obvious that (in general), we cannot expect to entice the best teachers with the lowest salaries? (You get what you pay for.)

Answer 1

AMEN!  

And anyone who thinks the vacation time of a teacher is so wonderful clearly is not informed.  As a teacher I spend my vacation time doing unpaid work.  During the year I am usually correcting papers, even if I go on vacation.  Which, if I do go someplace on vacation, it will be packed - because everyone is on vacation! (Well, not everyone.  There are those parents who take their students out of school during school time, even though it is frowned upon.  I wish I could do that...)  Oh, and I certainly don't go on vacation in the summer. Why?  Because I don't get paid.  That's right no pay check for three months so no vacation, after all I have a mortgage to pay and two children to feed.  Yet, despite the fact that I am not getting paid, I am planning units and lessons, meeting about various building issues and helping to train new teachers.  I must really love my job.

And why do people think teachers have to be martyrs for their jobs?  No one expects it of athletes, why us?  

As for the public/ private school debate.  Private schools pay very well and are different from Catholic schools, which usually don't pay as well.  A Catholic school isn't a private school (they will accept anyone who can pay - although they can boot you if they are not happy with you), and a private school (they don't have to take you from the get go) isn't Catholic.

Answer 2

Teachers should be paid by the government, a nice set wage that would make them less stressed about affording life while they teach.

And...somewhere...out there...there are good teachers who knew they wouldn't make a lot, but they wanted to make a difference. that crowd is really the only crowd that deserves to teach, but whatev.

Answer 3

I could always use more money, but I also believe that comparatively lower salaries for teachers (compared to, say, athletes or movie stars) is the way to go... Here's why: If teachers made mega bucks, everyone would want to be a teacher, instead of the people who want to do it and love it despite the pay. Plus, with my low salary I get to be a martyr.  

Answer 4

The quality teachers in science are way over paid to teach my son about fairy tales such as "Global Warming' and "Creationism".

I thought teachers had to earn a degree.How is it that they are hiring unqualified people?

Conclusion: HIGHER TAXES that is always the solution including "Global Warming".

Here in my state teachers average pay is over $60,000 dollars a year. That includes every weekend off, spring break, Christmas break( That's right not winter break ), the whole summer off, MLK Day, Columbus Day, and lots of other worthless holidays. Not too bad for $60,000 a year

So why are we complain' again?

Answer 5

You're right on the money with regards to the math and science teachers and the private sector.  Potentially great teachers can find better paying jobs without all the hassles that come with teaching, and it's making it harder to fill those positions.  

I think there's more to the problem than just raising teacher salary though.  The decision makers of education need to actually pay attention to the research that's involved in best practices.  Because they're not.  And that's why education in America sucks.

Answer 6

I don't know. Salaries were recently cut at a local failing district and they had to let go of several teachers because they could not afford them.  Now the teachers will have bigger class sizes and the students will have less attention and as a result probably not learn as much.   Then the community will wonder what teachers are doing and blah, blah, blah....

Personally I feel that money can only go so far. I get paid very little and feel I am capable of being a great teacher.  I am doing what I love, and what pays the bills.  No one goes into teaching expecting to get rich.  However I also have a lot of parent support...though know of some teachers who do not.

I feel parent support (or lack there of) is the problem in recent years.  Teachers used to be looked up to.  Parents took their advice, asked for help and encouraged their children to do well.  But this is not the case with many anymore.  Many feel all education stops when the kids leave school, that they have no duties other than keeping the kids clean, safe and fed and teachers should do the rest.  I have even heard a story about a parent telling a student to purposely do poorly on the state's standardized test so the school does bad.  While this is obviously not the norm, it is a reflection of many in society.

As for private schools, many do not pay as well.  Many struggle to match public school salaries.  Several of my coworkers came from a private (Catholic) schools to ours for better pay and we are one of the lowest in the state.

Parent and community support is what we need.  Not money....though it is always nice.

EDIT- That's a pretty nice starting pay...Where are you working?  It starts about 30k around here...on average.

Answer 7

Are you serious?! The teachers at my school get 45k THEIR FIRST YEAR and i go to a rundown P.O.S school, not to mention the vacation time and yes my school is public with 1800+ students (high school)

Answer 8

I know. My friend is a teacher and she is in like 5,000 $ in debt because the school barely supplies anything for the teachers!!!

Answer 9

These kinds of questions always bother me because invariably the teacher-haters come out of the word work. I get really discouraged when I see other people acting as if teachers are lazy and worthless.

My perspective -

Teachers are paid a livable wage, but not a decent wage considering the huge education requirements for our degree and continuing education.

Teachers used to be treated respectfully, now people often play bash the teacher for everything they see wrong with their child and the world.

I'm a school technology specialist and am also certified to teach science. I have maintained a fairly large school network for several years and am well-qualified to work in the private sector for far more money than I make now. I'm considering it.

I love what I do and am very good at my job. I do not really want to do anything else.

I spend my summer working without pay. It is not a vacation.

This summer I worked for 6 hours a day for two months without pay so that your child will have new computers when she comes back to school.

I did go on a two-week vacation at the end of the summer and it was lovely. We went to Boston which is a wonderful city.

Since I have returned I have worked 10 to 12 hour days trying to get caught up.

A lot of things have to happen behind the scenes for your child to have a quality education. My days are very busy and very stressful.

But if you child comes to me in tears and upset, I will drop what I'm doing to see what I can do to help. And I am happy to do it.

I can survive on what I make. There's not much money for extras and I work extra jobs and assignments for vacation money and such. But I do get by.

Things have been pretty ugly here in Florida. They've cut teacher pay and increased work hours. A lot of teachers have retired or quit.

I have never talked to anyone who thought that they could do my job easily. I seldom talk to people who would want my job, but I love it.

I have been in this profession for quite some time and I have never seen so many discouraged, defeated teachers. We don't feel wanted and we don't feel that we can succeed. There is no way we can meet the demands that society has placed upon us.

We could use a pat on the back now and then. A thank you for all our efforts would be nice, too.

One final thought - occasionally I see the results of my work immediately. More often, I see the results years later when former students come back to visit me from high school and college. When they tell me something they learned from me years ago it makes me feel good that I could have a part in their lives.

Thanks for the question, and for letting me ramble.

Answer 10

I don't believe that the salary has anything to do with how "highly effective" a person will be as a teacher. The salary would, however, make it easier to put up with the EXTREMELY frustrating points of teaching. Points that would not be completley understood unless a person has walked in teacher's shoes.  

I do believe that as Americans we can not continue to compare the scores of our schools to the scores of schools in other countries. Over all Americans do not value education as those in other countries seem to. I have noticed in my experience that many parents view public schools as free babysitters and do not encourage their children to excel in the academic world. In other countries parents and children alike realize what a privilege education is and therefore take advantage of it and work hard to achieve good grades. Without the support and encouragement from home a teacher cannot effectively do his/her job.

If a teacher spends most of his/her day redirecting or calming the growing number of "problem" children, attempting to meet the needs of the inclusionary classroom (all children regardless of ability level are grouped together), and following the long list of modifications for "special needs" children; what time or energy can we expect a teacher to have left to actually teach a memorable and meaninful lesson!?

Teachers are contract workers. The average contracted hours are only 7-8 hours a day for 190 days a year; however I have yet to meet a teacher who only works his/her contracted hours. Teachers probably spend about 9-10 hours a day working on school related tasks either at school or home during the work week and additional hours on the weekends to prepare for the next week or finish up from the previous one. People often don't know or ignore all that teachers are required to do during the summer months (i.e. workshops to renew certification, rewriting lesson plans that didn't work, writing new lesson plans to present new material, etc.) This is time taken from the teacher's family and time that the teacher is not compensated for and yet it is needed to continue or improve the effectiveness of the teacher.

I would go so far as to say that if people who say teachers are overpaid or are paid fairly would walk into the classroom and shadow a teacher for about a week their thoughts and feelings would change. At this point we might begin to see teachers given the credit and pay they are long overdue.

I could go on and on about the topic of education in the United States but I figure I have said enough. I apolgize if it is not the most beautifully written response but it is certainly from the heart. I have so many passionate feelings about the treatment and expecations of teachers that I cannot possibily begin to address them all here.

Yes, things need to change in order to improve education in the US but it isn't as simple as increasing the salary. I wish it was but there is much work to be done and it mostly needs to be done in the home, in the state capital and in Washington D.C.