How did I get a foal this color?

Question

I had this foal born last week. She looks like she is a champagne. She has pink skin under her hair. Her hooves are white. Her sire is a black tobiano and dam is a light bay. The dam is from a sorrel paint breeding stock mare I own. I have never seen this color expressed before. Could she be a solid tobiano? Can the champagne gene be hidden in a black stud? I have a mare with the siver gene, who is the sorrel mare's sister. I am totally surprised. I also got a smokey colored foal from the same stud and a black mare. Nothing in the studs pedigree shows any champagne horses. Here are their pictures.

http://spotted.horsecity.com/pages/big_photo.php?mm=1535910&gallery=305235

http://spotted.horsecity.com/pages/big_photo.php?mm=1535918&gallery=305235

Answer 1

Inheritance of color in the horse is not fully understood, but you likely could find something at Amazon.com... I recall hearing about a book called Color in Horses from my vet.

Nice horses, btw.

Answer 2

I would ask what color were the sire's parents. He could have been a smokey black, carrying one creme gene. This foal could be palomino if that were the case. Does the foal have blue eyes?????? It almost looked like it in the picture. If it does then I have no idea where the color came from and would DNA to make sure the parentage matches up.....

Here is some great information on the champagne gene http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champagne_g...  and by what this says there is not a possible way for your foal to be a champagne.

Here is some info on Champagne dilution in foals.... http://www.ichregistry.com/identificatio...

Answer 3

Ahhh...  they're adorable in their little fuzzy foal coats!

It's too soon to tell what color these guys will be.  Foal coats don't have a lot to do with mature coats.  I once had a cream foal (much like yours) mature into true black.

The champagne gene is recessive and thus could be hidden in the stud, but even if it was hidden in both the stud and the dam you'd only have about a 25% chance of it being expressed in the foal.

It'll sure be interesting to watch them mature!  I'm totally jealous.  ;)

Answer 4

you can get a foal that is any color no matter the parents color! when the parents are bred they can ' pull ' genes from anywhere in there bloodlines! so you might have  2 black parents and get a grey foal! i personally think breeding horses is exciting cause u never know wat the foal will look like!

Answer 5

The cream gene that makes buckskins (from bay's) and palominos (from sorrel/chestnut) doesn't affect a black horse usually.  Its what you call "smokey black"  Sometimes, they will look a little smokey as babies, then when they mature, look like a normal black horse, but they carry the cream gene.  If your black tobiano stud carries the cream gene, that would explain why the one black baby looks smokey, and I think this new one is going to shed out palomino.  Check in the base of the mane/tail and see if you can see any white hairs.  Lots of palominos are born where their mane/tails don't look white right away, but shed out that way.  The only one of the parents that could have this gene tucked away is the sire.  Check out the stud's pedigree, were either of his parents a buckskin or a palomino?  Or could one of his parents have been a smokey black, carrying the creme gene from his grandparents?  Have you ever gotten a buckskin foal from him?

Answer 6

What color are her eyes? Champagnes are born with deep blue eyes ( not the pale blue that you see in Cremellos/Perlinos) and their skin is a pale pumpkin/ orangish/ pinkish tan color, not pink.  Also, though Champagne is a dilution gene, it must be expressed (shown in the color) by one of the parents in order to occur in the foal.  

It may happen that her skin will darken as she gets a bit older...lots of chestnuts are born with lighter ( pinkish) colored muzzles and genitalia, but they will turn darker gradually over a couple of weeks and will eventually be the normal blackish color. It she is a true champagne, I have to tell  you that she is the product of a mismate, because Champagne is genetically not possible from the mating you have described. To learn more go to http://www.brownridgefarm.com/champagne_...

Answer 7

What a beautiful little palomino filly.  I have heard that the dun gene is closest to black.  There are many studies that have been done regarding Appaloosa horse color (because they can be so diverse) based on color genes of the sire and dam.  You might try researching through the ApHC web site.

Answer 8

okay i understand your confusion i have the exact problem my stud is a purevred blak morgan and mommy is ligh bay and baby is like palamino

Answer 9

Zaphania is absolutely incorrect...the Champagne Gene is a Dominant not a Recessive ( UC Davis will be happy to confirm this is you doubt my word on it) and either the sire or the dam MUST show it or your foal cannot be Champagne. Period, end of discussion...this gene as well as the Cream gene are both very clearly mapped and well understood. This filly cannot be either a Champage nor a double dilute ( Creamello/Perlino) with the sire and dam being the colors that are given...it's not my opinion, it's not "poorly understood", it's a straight out fact. I'd be checking into the possibility of a yearling colt having access to the mare, or some other thing, but you will need to have her DNA tested anyway, because if you plan to register her APHA.  They will call you on the color, and require a test if she is Champagne...they also know it's not possible.

Answer 10

She sounds beautiful. There is a really good website that explains all the genes, creme dilutions, etc, and allows you to enter the sire and dam's colors and it gives you all the possible colors the foal might be.

www.horsetesting.com

Answer 11

i know i am not gonna help any with this question but i just wanted to say that the foals are BEAutiful!!!