How different is the Polytrack from dirt in horseracing? Do horses run differently? Does it change everything?

Question

How different is the Polytrack from dirt in horseracing? Do horses run differently? Does it change everything?

Answer 1

Sort of, it is a mix of turf and dirt, not all turf horses love it and not all dirt horses hate it, it is what it is and some horses will run well on it and some won't, just like the 2 other conventional surfaces.  

Just to add to the top 2 answers, it is much kinder on the horses, but they are still working the kinks out of them.  Woodbine right now has been favoring speed pretty much all meet, I know that they are planning on making an adjustment to the mix in May to help reduce the kickback in colder weather, which won't be coming again until November.

The only people who don't like it are gamblers who can't handicap a horse race and use numbers to tell them the winner, and the old hardboots that plague this industry being so afraid of change.  I don't know too many owners that would rather see their horses breakdown and come up lame more often because some guy can't figure out how to handicap the Poly.  To the genius above who posted about horses being a toss coming off the Poly what did the top 3 finishers of the Breeders Cup Juvi run on in their prep last year.  Once again learn how to handicap and you won't hate it.

EDIT:  I guess most people feel that Poly shouldn't be used and more horses should breakdown because their handicapping strategies are no longer useful on a new surface.  It's funny that speed horses supposedly don't do well, I have one with absolutely no turf in it pedigree and has 2 wins and 2 4ths (one of them by a neck for the win) on the surface, the furthest back that horse has been in any of the 4 races was 2 1/2 lengths, and the final times were all around 10 and change, seems normal to me, the only difference, he bounces out of his races like he was out for a gallop.  As an owner who rarely plays his own horses but does bet 2 or 3 races out of a card, I love it, I don't use biases and never have (aside from the absurd one that used to be at Keeneland, that wasn't horse racing that was luck of the draw).  I'm on the rail watching works or gallopers and in the Form every day, I handicap the horse, not numbers or any other false stat.  The gamblers out there better start learning how to handicap the horse instead of the track because with California and Arlington now switching over you won't be able to ignore the "fad".  If the're gonna keep crying about it maybe Andy Beyer can buy his own track and all the bias and speed handicappers out there can play at that track until all their horses are gone.

I wasn't talking about Andy's speed figures I know they have nothing to do with what goes on during the race, we have Moss to tell us that now.  I was commenting on his bitching about Poly in one of his articles.  Last I checked horses are able to go coast to coast, they are called quality horses not bias riders.  All those horses you mentioned wouldn't get caught if they took to the surface (and a lot of them would probably have had longer careers if they trained and raced over a kinder surface, but I guess that doesn't matter), I've had horses go coast to coast on the poly at Woodbine, I own a mare whose filly went coast to coast going 2 turns in her 2nd career start at Hollywood, and some do both at Keeneland.  I own horses now because I made money betting in school and bought a horse with that money and now am in the 20-25 range, I do just as well if not better playing the Poly than I do the turf or dirt.  Your $100 a day at Keeneland won't be missed, the bigger field sizes, because of the track will make up for it in the handle.  I don't know why people are so afraid to handicap a new surface.  In your world Sinister Minister must be a legit Grade 1 winner then, because he rode the Keeneland rail last year, since it was on dirt.  Do you know the exact makeup of Oaklawn or Churchill, do they call you and let you know when they are altering their surface.  Is Churchill going to announce how fast they are going to make the track this year for Derby day.  Maybe you would be happy if one of the bunch from this crop took out Secretariats record because he cranked the track up a little too much.  If you don't like it or if you think it's un-American? fine, but don't call a surface that will help the good of the horses a farce, after all it is horse racing and without the horses you'd be playing Keno.

Answer 2

very different, trainers report that horses skip over it both in training and in races...information supports this in number of horses coming back hot and number of injuries both in races and in training...its easier on a horses joints...there are 4 different synthetic surfaces and the polytrack that was installed in Keenland last year changed the bias totally, as for many years Keenland was a track that horses with an inside post and speed won a large number of races at all distances...the track now only has front runners winning at 4%, giving Andy Beyer (he of the Beyer's speed numbers and speed handicapping guru) and speed handicappers fits...I posted on here earlier in the year that the track has a backwards bias now...horses shortening up out of routes and turf runners are doing very well at all distances on the poly as long as they have some late run...in short yes, it has changed the way you choose and play races as a bettor...turfway park in Ky has poly but it is more speed favoring than keenland, Woodbine in Ontario Canada has synthetic,Hollywood park now has a synthetic track also but it is more fair, before the 08 breeders cup Santa Anita will have its synthetic track in place...the first track to have synthetic for the breeders cup... the only concern Ive read is that there are poly fibers and whether or not it can get in the sinuses or affect the breathing of the horses...

Answer 3

Very different. It leads to an absurd, farcical type of race (like a Euro turf race) that is inherently contradictory to the type of horses that have been bred for dirt racing and early speed for the past several centuries in America.

It has had some early popularity due to the novelty and at  the "boutique" type meets such as Keeneland, where people would bet on camel races if that's all that was on offer.

It is also quite popular among people who can't handicap, and would just as soon play the slots or keno (they like the poly because their hunch pick is just about as likely to come up as anyone else's pick), and owners, most of whom can't handicap, and just blindly bet their own or their pals horses anyway.

As far as long term success, we will know in about five years or so, it is too early to tell.

P.S. The attack on Andy Beyer from the benighted owners is absurd garbage. OF COURSE AND OBVIOUSLY, the Beyer speed figures DO NOT account for positional bias. Hello? Why do you decry something that you don't even understand?

Would it be great for racing if Slew was run down in the "77 Derby by some grinding pig who ran the mile in 1:41, but finished fast?? I don't think so. Un-American. PERIOD.

We have been exposed to all sorts of evidence that the Poly can be "tweaked" by a "tech" who alters the consistency of the surface e.g. Keeneland is playing too slow and Woodbine is playing too fast. As a handicapper, who ACTUALLY SUPPORTS HORSE RACING, I say go to h**l. Why should I bet on some ridiculous c**p when you don't even disclose to me the composition of the surface??

Boycott polytrack, tell the owners to rot in h...

As a horseplayer who used to bet about 2K a meet on Keeneland, forget about it. See how you're doing in 2013 when the novelty wears off with the slots and keno players.

Perhaps you would've been delighted to see Ruffian or Slew or Siphon or Artax or Ghostzapper or Cigar or Azeri or Xtra Heat or Spend a Buck or Buck's Boy or War Emblem or Formal Gold or Capote Belle or Atticus or Louis Quatorze or Sunday Silence or Skip Away or Groovy or Smoke Glacken or Reraise or Gentlemen or Lost in the Fog or Congaree or Too Much Bling or Left Bank or Lil's Lad or Presidio Heights run down by some grind it out mediocrity of a turf horse, if so, you are a dolt and a fool who doesn't understand horse racing.

Answer 4

Polytrack is different.  They knew it would slow down races and they knew it would take some adjustment for the horses, trainers, jockeys, handicappers and everyone.  It doesn't change everything...  all horse races are alike in some ways...  but it is much different than normal dirt.  So far, it seems to hurt the horses who lead the races and really helps the horses that close hard...  but that's not to say that it's not possible for a horse to win running on the lead wire to wire.  Slew Tizzy won yesterday and he led for the whole race.  But the vast majority of races have been won by the horses who close late in the race...  Polytrack slows down the first half of the race and usually the second half is the normal speed and sometimes faster.  Jockeys say they tend to ride more like a turf race.  and the horses who have run turf often run better on Polytrack than on dirt because polytrack is like grass in that it doesn't give way when the horse kicks itself forward with its back legs.  Polytrack does change a lot, but once they run on it a little longer, we'll get the hang of it...  we'll know how to handicap and trainers will know more what to do with their horses.

Answer 5

The biggest difference is that it's the biggest farce ever put in the game of racing. Sure, the surface is supposed to protect the horses from injury, but the bias on some of these poly tracks are a joke. Watch the Kentucky Derby. All these poly horses that did well, won;t do squat on traditional dirt.Thank god for Churchill, Gulfstream , Calder and all other dirt tracks.