How long are Catholics going to milk 2 Thessalonians 2:15?

Question

2 Thessalonians 2:15

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

How long are they going to keep using this verse to verify the "traditions" that keep coming up for the past 2000 years?

Answer 1

How long are you going to hold on to Sola Scriptura when the Bible only exists (gasp) by tradition?

Answer 2

They still can't answer who this church is:

Rev 17:5  And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

7 glorious mysteries, 7 sorrowful mysteries, 7 joyful mysteries, the Luminous mysteries, etc., etc., etc.. A church that is a mother that produced other FALSE churches. Therefore "harlot". What other church, in the history of the world, fits this description given by Jesus?

Answer 3

How long are the different christian sects going to fight?

Answer 4

Now, could it truly have been Paul’s desire that sincere Christians be little concerned about the presence of their Lord and the day of Jehovah? Or did he not, rather, want them to maintain mental balance in the matter, to ‘keep their senses’ by making “sure of all things”? Thus, neither would they be thrown out of equilibrium by unfounded messages about Jehovah’s day being at hand nor would they be unprepared, careless and callous regarding it.—1 Thessalonians 5:8, 21; compare 2 Peter 3:3, 10-12 and 1 John 4:1.

Here we should bear in mind that those Thessalonians were fully aware that Jehovah’s day was “coming exactly as a thief in the night.” Far from being a reason for nonchalance, this meant that they should “stay awake,” as persons assigned “not to wrath, but to the acquiring of salvation.” After the apostasy had put in its full appearance, the day of Jehovah would come. This would be at a time when those in opposition to Jehovah’s Kingdom—including no doubt the “man of lawlessness”—would be saying: “Peace and security!” That would be the signal for their instant, sudden destruction. (1 Thessalonians 5:1-11) In that day of execution of righteous judgment, happy will be those ‘knowing God and obeying the good news about the Lord Jesus’!—2 Thessalonians 1:8.if you want more email me, with an Email

Answer 5

How long are Protestants going to deny the obvious meaning of this verse?

How long are the Protestants going to continue preaching Sola Scriptura when it isn't even Biblical?

All of our Oral Traditions are from the Apostles. Yes, our teachings become clarified, but they do not change nor do we add to our Oral Traditions.

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Also, who ever said that with the Bible, all revelation stopped? The Church does believe that God can still give revelations to the Church, no where in the Bible contradicts this belief either.

We do not limit God to the Bible, look at Luke 1:3-4 "Having carefully investigated everything from the beginning, I also have decided to write a careful account for you, most honorable Theophilus, so you can be certain of the truth of everything you were taught."

Luke is saying he is writing this to confirm what was taught *orally*, this does not mean *everything* is in the Bible, but it is used to confirm the oral teachings of the Apostles.

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"well why else would they start doing the sign of the cross, Paul sure never did. :)"

And you know this how? Do you know for a fact that Paul never made the sign of the cross?

Some scholars say St. Paul's saying that he bears the marks of Christ on his body, in Galatians 6:17, as his referring to the sign of the cross.

And making the sign of the cross isn't an Oral Tradition, yes, it is something we do, but do you even know what making the sign of the cross does and mean?

1. Shows outwardly that you are one of God's people.

2. Starts and ends prayers with "in the name of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit"

3.The sign of the cross is a mark of discipleship

4.. Father is at the head, Son is at the bottom and the Holy Spirit makes the cross.

There is more meaning in the sign of the cross than just tradition. From the Father came the Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit is the love between God & Jesus. So the cross between Father & Son when we say "Holy Spirit" is more than just making a cross.

We are stating what we believe by making the cross.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13785a.h...

http://www.catholic.org/featured/headlin...

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1990/90...

Answer 6

We don't "milk it".  We use it as evidence that Oral Tradition is very valid.  Scripture is interpreted through tradition.

Answer 7

If by "milk" you mean to continue to teach the truth of this scripture, we will always defend St. Paul's wisdom in 2 Thess 2:15.

Christianity is learned from both scripture and from sacred tradition, as St. Paul points out.  Scripture alone doesn't work because everyone can read scripture to please himself.  That is why Jesus established a church, with sacred traditions, to safeguard the original meaning.

Cheers,

Bruce

Answer 8

Oh, it's you.  I thought for sure this was a "Chris" question.  

Answer 9

Don't talk about things you don't understand you Prot!!

Answer 10

Well if that one seems to bother you, then here are a few more you may want to digest:

Matt. 15:3 - Jesus condemns human traditions that void God's word. Some Protestants use this verse to condemn all tradition. But this verse has nothing to do with the tradition we must obey that was handed down to us from the apostles. (Here, the Pharisees, in their human tradition, gave goods to the temple to avoid taking care of their parents, and this voids God's law of honoring one's father and mother.)

Mark 7:9 - this is the same as Matt. 15:3 - there is a distinction between human tradition (that we should reject) and apostolic tradition (that we must accept).

Gal. 1:14; Col. 2:22 – Paul also writes about “the traditions of my fathers” and “human precepts and doctrines” which regarded the laws of Judaism. These traditions are no longer necessary.

Acts 2:42 - the members obeyed apostolic tradition (doctrine, prayers, and the breaking of bread). Their obedience was not to the Scriptures alone. Tradition (in Greek, "paradosis") means "to hand on" teaching.

Acts 20:7 - this verse gives us a glimpse of Christian worship on Sunday, but changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday is understood primarily from oral apostolic tradition.

John 17:20 - Jesus prays for all who believe in Him through the oral word of the apostles. Jesus protects oral apostolic teaching.

1 Cor. 11:2 - Paul commends the faithful for maintaining the apostolic tradition that they have received. The oral word is preserved and protected by the Spirit.

Eph. 4:20 – Paul refers the Ephesians to the oral tradition they previously received when he writes, “You did not so learn Christ!”

Phil. 4:9 - Paul says that what you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, do. This refers to learning from his preaching and example, which is apostolic tradition.

Col. 1:5-6 – of this you have heard before in the word of the truth, the gospel, which has come to you. This delivery of the faith refers to the oral tradition the Colossians had previously received from the ordained leaders of the Church. This oral tradition is called the gospel of truth.

1 Thess.1:5 – our gospel came to you not only in word, but in the power of the Holy Spirit. Paul is referring to the oral tradition which the Thessalonians had previously received. There is never any instruction to abandon these previous teachings; to the contrary, they are to be followed as the word of God.

1 Thess. 4:2 – Paul again refers the Thessalonians to the instructions they already had received, which is the oral apostolic tradition.

2 Thess. 2:5 – Paul yet again refers the Thessalonians to the previous teachings they received from Paul when he taught them orally. These oral teachings are no less significant than the written teachings.

2 Thess. 2:15 - Paul clearly commands us in this verse to obey oral apostolic tradition. He says stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, either by word of mouth or letter. This verse proves that for apostolic authority, oral and written communications are on par with each other. Protestants must find a verse that voids this commandment to obey oral tradition elsewhere in the Bible, or they are not abiding by the teachings of Scripture.

2 Thess. 2:15 - in fact, it was this apostolic tradition that allowed the Church to select the Bible canon (apostolicity was determined from tradition). Since all the apostles were deceased at the time the canon was decided, the Church had to rely on the apostolic tradition of their successors. Hence, the Bible is an apostolic tradition of the Catholic Church. This also proves that oral tradition did not cease with the death of the last apostle. Other examples of apostolic tradition include the teachings on the Blessed Trinity, the hypostatic union (Jesus had a divine and human nature in one person), the filioque (that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son), the assumption of Mary, and knowing that the Gospel of Matthew was written by Matthew.

2 Thess. 3:6 - Paul again commands the faithful to live in accord with the tradition that they received from the apostles.

2 Thess. 3:7 - Paul tells them they already know how to imitate the elders. He is referring them to the tradition they have learned by his oral preaching and example.

1 Tim. 6:20 - guard what has been "entrusted" to you. The word "entrusted" is "paratheke" which means a "deposit." Oral tradition is part of what the Church has always called the Deposit of Faith.

2 Tim. 2:2 - Paul says what you have heard from me entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. This is "tradition," or the handing on of apostolic teaching.

2 Tim. 3:14 - continue in what you have learned and believed knowing from whom you learned it (by oral tradition).

1 John 2:7 – John refers to the oral word his disciples have heard which is the old commandment that we love one another.

Answer 11

Ordinary Catholics do not milk 1 Thessalonians  2:15.The Catholic church has manipulated the verse and the ordinary Catholics don't know any different.

1 Thessalonians 2:15 refers to Biblical traditions, not man made traditions.

Answer 12

I'm a little concerned about you sounding like you want to become a disciple of this Chris guy...why?  Do you even really know him?  If you had to pick him out of a police line-up, could you? ... It's one thing to see yourself as a disciple of Paul, but very different to view somebody on the internet with the same enthusiasm.

Be VERY careful of internet friendships, Lion...people can have a way of manipulating you in ways you cannot fathom, and the anominity granted by the internet makes such "partnerships" very dangerous indeed...just be careful...I will pray for you...

EDIT:  Just as a clarification, there are only 5 visions of Christ's life to each rosary's mysteries not -

"7 glorious mysteries, 7 sorrowful mysteries, 7 joyful mysteries"

-as this person seems to think....

Answer 13

actually that's exactly what that verse means. We must hold to the traditions we are taught no matter how much time has past and if new traditions are taught so be it. that verse is key in defending Catholic Tradition which we Catholics will always uphold. God Bless

Answer 14

FOR AS LONG AS THE ETERNAL WORD OF GOD THE BIBLE IS THERE....!!!  

Answer 15

They will do this as long as there are so many silent ones and silent opposition to their ways.  In order to change society reverently, one must do this in "Forgive Affirmed Spirit" or expect rejection over and over again!

Life does not always seem FAIR!

Hi!  I am a Forgive Affirmed Spirit and this is what I profess and try to act like.

Forgive Affirmed Spirit is the belief in a way of life that is a method of grief resolution and functional communication processing involving active listenning, sympathy, empathy and affirmation of shock, denial, anger, guilt, depression, loneliness and hope...a kind of ego-equilibrium seeking methodology.

A Greater Works of communication and action, a way to learn to love your enemies "Advocating mortal life, Do unto others as you would have them do unto you AS IF YOU WERE THEM!"  



And nobody is perfect!  NOBODY!  We are all judgeable, hopefully in a graceful discerning way!   We are all doing our best every moment!

Humans judge everything  as we are a part of it.  Without difference, we have nothing to live for, nothing to witness.  Sin is difference, the relative seriousness with regards to law and survival of other beings, is punishable by the courts. The best way to judge is with as much graceful discernment as one can muster in a given moment!

Life is the question(uncertainty) asked by the exhaling infinitely compacted imagination invention, or no thing, which is completely certain of everything, completely omniscient or all knowing.

When I die, I believe I will be in a new state, aware of all that is and yet divided into the nature of dust that I am in, whereupon my dust shall fall.  My being will remain an infinite part of an infinite being and infinite knowledge without my material human being status of now. So there will be a change.



But my soul, my passions and discompassions, will move on to infinite places of comfort and challenge.  Able to return to this state of uncertainty and free choice illusion for another ride when it is called effectively to do so.

So that the children of God, the creations of God, .. are actually part in parcel of that God or Creation Energy!

This  life is a roller coaster ride. Enjoy your passion within it and whatever gathering of two or more in Forgive Affirmed Spirit to make it better can garner.

Healing be unto you and yours and me and mine in

Forgive Affirmed Spirit

Answer 16

Um, it's a Bible verse, inspired of God.

<<Paul couldn't have said 2000 years worth of traditions, there's no way.>>

Why not? All the things you believe have lasted 2000 years. How can you decide that some things should end or should not end?

Jesus said his Church would last until he returns and it has. The core beliefs, the deposit of faith, has never changed and never will. It is Christ's own authority, laid on Peter and his successors that declare the infallible and divine truth.

ADDED: Oh, I see where you're coming from:

<<yep, and they make one everytime they pass a catholic  church. Source(s):I guess that's "tradition" also. :)>>

Said by you in this question: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;...

Something like making the sign of the cross is not part of Sacred Tradition and the Catholic Church has never claimed that it is. You've mixed up Sacred Traditions with things Catholics traditionally do. They are two totally different things.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Scriptur...

Answer 17

The Traditions of the Church come from Jesus.  I do not know how long they will last.  I guess until when Jesus comes back.  If you mean by milking Scripture that Catholics follow Scripture the Church will follow all Scripture until the last day.  All Christians should "milk" the Scripture shouldn't they?

Answer 18

You forgot to quote the other scripture..THE CHURCH is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth.

And there are others.

Answer 19

we don't use verses to verify anything.  we worte teh verses.  the church veriefed the verses not vice a versa, see as usual you've got it backwards and all wrong.

WE VERIFIED THE VERSES THEY DON'T VERIFY US.

We wrote the new testament. It is our stroy. turn or burn.

Jesus>chruch>bible

Sola Scriptura ?

Go get a copy of the marine corp. manual, take it home study it. Don't forget to rip out the five chapters that contradict what you are doing.

Get other people together to study it, implement it in your life, get the people who you study it with to implement it in there lives.

Oh, don’t forget to get your official marine corps manual concordance, so you can look up words and phrases like “simper fi”, “Iwo Jima”, “Helmet”, “Grenade”, and “Honor”,  etc.  

Now does this make you guys marines?

I think not.

You are missing pretty much everything that it means to be a marine. You haven't had the training that they have done for years you don't have the history -- the understanding of what it means to BE a marine as passed on from the founder of the marine corp to his first lieutenants and on down through the ranks through the years – the direct link to the founder of the marine corp. and writers of the manual, nor do you have  the word of mouth testimony (those unwritten instructions that the founder himself – who by the way did not write the manual -- passed on to his first lieutenants, things the marines have been doing for years),  nor do you have the true meaning of what the manual says. Because, of course, outside of the marine corp., the manual is MEANINGLESS.

People who belong to bible studying fellowships who believe in the doctrine of solely scripture, scripture first, scripture only -- sola scriptura are no more Christians than are the people who got together to study the marine manual are marines.  

Now that you and your friends have studied the marine corp manual. Go out in front of a marine corp. recruiting station and as people walk in hand them a tract from the manual and get them to come join you. Go to a marine corp. camp and do the same thing see if they will join you marine corp. manual studying fellowship. But don't call yourselves that. Call yourselves, "marines". Go to the veterans day parade and hand out tracts from the manual there, and tell them to come to your marine barracks. Let people know that you have the way that all they have to do is study the manual with you and they too can be marines.

Oh yes and erect marine corp. manual studying colleges and graduate what?

Experts in misunderstanding the marine corp. manual.

And OHHHH yes don't forget to call yourselves not just marines but "heroes(saints)", because after all everyone who is part of your marine corp., manual studying fellowship is a "hero(saint)", after all the manual says that doesn't it?  Forget about honoring real marine “Heroes(Saints)” like Colonel Louis C. Plain and Gunnery Sergeant John Basilone;  or Gunnery Sergeant Donald A. Levesque (RET); or Marine Cpl. Jason Dunham ... etc.; for after all the manual tells us not to do that, right?

Then, go up to a real marine (if you dare) tell them what you are doing, and ask them what is wrong with it?

Answer 20

How long are you going to continue to attack Catholics?

Answer 21

A mean spirit is a mean spirit.  Why do you depend on Chris to decide if fault should be found.  Neither one of you has a clue about Catholicism, only the hidebound ignorance you spout.  Why should any traditions end?  Do you think other parts of the Bible are obsolete?  Why only the things we believe?  How you can find fault with honoring the Trinity is beyond me.  We do not make the sign of the cross every time we pass a church, although it would make sense to do that.  The real presence of Jesus Christ is in the tabernacle of every Catholic Church.  If you're really interested in what we do and why, try asking your questions on Catholic.com.  A expert in Catholicism will answer your questions and not give you lies.

Cashamara, good answer.  Who says Catholics don't know the Bible.