How to convince people on here that there is not and never will be a "Mutt Shortage?"?

Question

So many folks flipping out about the responsible breeders discouraging others from making mutts. So many questions saying "Well if all dogs were spade (sic) then no one would have any puppys!" So many owners worried about mandatory spay/neuter laws in their city/state.

Even websites and 'experts' now saying that the shelter dog is a declining breed.

Well, folks, I'm here to tell you that's not true. As usual, we are filled to capacity at the shelter and have a long waiting list and just had 11 puppies dumped on us. Same situation in every shelter in my county- I call around to see who has space in case of emergency. Answer: NOBODY.

So who here is really worried that the 'snob' breeders and the legislature is going to eliminate the good old fashioned mutt?

All opinions appreciated. Both sides of this argument would be great, for a change. Thanks.

Answer 1

I know and if you can't convince them, nobody can.  You know, there's been a 40-pound cat on the news here that's gotten so much media lately that was dumped because of foreclosure.  Well they said that that cat got so many people looking to adopt it that it would have wiped out ALL the cats in all the local shelters... every single one.  How sad is that?  So many people wanted this 40-pound cat that was getting all this media yet those same people won't put in an application for all those poor cats sitting waiting for a home or for all those poor dogs waiting for a home.

So I know.  I kind of got off the subject there.  I don't know.  I just wish all those animals in the shelters could get the same kind of media attention that that cat got to get homes and I know the shelters are only facing worse problems every day because of the worsening economy and you and every one in your position have to deal with it.

EDIT:  Oh I know... I was seeing it on the news every single day back when I asked about it.... The live ones being found due to foreclosure and the dead ones also being found and I know it's only getting worse and I know it's all getting dumped on you guys to the point where there's nothing in the world y'all can do anymore.

Answer 2

Breeders are irresponsible people and altogether bad businessmen.Those pure bred dogs are inbred to increase the profits for the breeder.Shelters not only help dogs and cats but they thoroughly screen and investigate potential caregivers for their animals.In business a salesperson is only interested in the transaction and what happens afterwards they are not concerned with.When I went to animal shelters I saw full rooms of dogs and it got to the point that I wanted to adopt more than one.There were puppies and the consensus was that every spring or summer there are always more puppies at shelters.

As far as the government is concerned they aren't thorough enough to enforce spay and neuter laws on a large scale.When the government bans police from using K-9 units I'll respect their ability.

Answer 3

IMO the only way to stop indiscriminate breeding and careless breeding (byb) is so make it a user pays scenario.  Take the profit out of backyard breeding.  People have to apply for a permit to mate a female, either pure or mixed, and provide evidence of why this mating is beneficial.  Then,if the permit is granted and the mating produces pups there should be a levy placed on each pup produced.  In addition, there should be inspections to ensure that the mother and pups are being cared for and housed correctly.  None of these backyard breeder cages.  If someone has a litter of pups without a permit there should be huge fines imposed.  Most breeders of pedigreed dogs do so for a reason and are not in it for the dollar.  If the profit for backyard breeders can be reduced then hopefully they will get out of the business.  

Answer 4

While I do understand your view, and I do see idiots whining about such things- I am not a huge fan of mandatory spay/neuter laws.  One was just passed in Dallas- and it was directed (supposedly) at puppy mills.  A friend of mine (who has 2 altered dogs, btw, and no intention of owning one that is not)- called and spoke to several representatives from the local humane society and shelters.  She asked some pointed questions that I found rather interesting:

1.)  Does your organization know of any active puppy mill inside the Dallas City limits?  The answer...NO

2.)  Does your organzation know of any pet store or flea market that allows the sale of dogs and/or cats within the Dallas City limits?  The answer again, was no!

3.)  Does your organzation keep records of how many of the dogs/cats euthanized are unrehabable.  (too ill, or too aggressive)- The answer?  You guessed it...No.

The problem with legislation such as BSL and Mandatory spay/neuter laws, is that it doesn't hit the intended target- the responsible breeders and dog owners are the ones who suffer.

Answer 5

This is not the solution but rather just something I've noticed.  Many of the "top contributor" names seem to appear over and over, and often they seem to be singing the praises of some dog or other being "up to standards" while others are not.  I'm sure they mean well, not wanting to encourage poor breeding practices, but the way in which they advise others comes off as very snooty.

Ever hear that you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar?  You could start by educating people in a kind manner instead of a belittling one.  AKC registered dogs are intended for persons wanting to participate in showing dogs as their hobby.  They should not be encouraged for pets.  The registration is not only unnecessary, but is wasted.  A shelter dog makes a perfectly wonderful pet.

OK, seems like I didn't get my point across, and I'm not sure exactly how to.  Top contributors in the dogs category should stop preaching standards and start educating in a friendly manner.

Just my opinion.

Answer 6

For those who think there are a shortage of mutts they need to pay a visit to their local shelter. Especially on "D" day as we call it. That's the day when they have to decide who lives and who doesn't. Then they need to be the one who actually gets to choose. Then they need to be the one who shows then some love and affection as their life slips away. Then they need to go back and do it all again a few days later when once again there is "no room at the inn."

Yes I have been the one who has held those beautiful heads and cried into their fur so as they knew love at least once in their lives and I'm totally against breeding mutts.

I'm crying as I type this as I know someone, somewhere is doing just that. Sadly it won;t be a greeder who bred the mutts in the first place, but someone like me who truly cares and feels all animals need to feel love at least once in their life even if it is as they draw their last breaths.

Trust me there is no shortage of mutts. If there is then plase come and adopt one of the 5 pages of mutts at our shelter.

Answer 7

I agree 100%! Mutts can have over eleven puppies in a litter. That's eleven mutts in the animal shelter. Imagine if that same dog had a litter that large twice a year every year of her life. Then, imagine if fifty more dogs were having the same amount twice every year. It's really happening! I would be thrilled if mutts were really "declining", it means less horrible people are breeding them and less are dying in shelters. But currently, there's more mutts in the world then we could possibly use.

Answer 8

Man, I'll take a 'mutt' any day!   The best pets ever!   I have been given ONE dog in my life (and she was mixed), all others came from the pound/shelter.

Answer 9

While you are correct - we are decades away from any "mutt shortages"

I am terrified of Mandatory Spay and Neuter laws. Even as a shelter volunteer and rescue worker who often finds herself in te same situation as you - I am fully opposed to mandatory spay/neuter.

Firstly for the health benefits of the individual dogs - it's bad. Most mandatory spay/neuter laws require the dog to be done before 6mos. Especially for giant breeds - this is a bad idea. Many people find it convenient to overlook the CONS of altering.  

Cons include:

for males:

increases risk of of prostate cancer

for females:

may cause spay incontinence

increases risk of vaginitis

increase chances of chronic urinary tract infections

for both:

You are putting your dog under anesthesia - which always carries a risk

Your dog will feel slight pain and discomfort (unavoidable as this IS a major surgery)

increases chance of developing bone cancer

increases the risk of cardiac hemangiosarcoma

increases risk of developing hypothyroidism

increases the risk of geriatric cognitive impairment

may increase the chances of obesity

increases risk of urinary tract cancers

increases the risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations

increases the risk of developing skeletal/orthopedic disorders

In great danes - bone Cancer is a huge problem breed wide. Testicular cancer (prevented by neutering) is not common in intact individuals. Cure for testicular cancer? Removing the testes. Cure for Bone cancer? Removing the limbs.  I would NEVER have a dane puppy neutered prior to 18mos for his HEALTH. Mandatory spay & neuter laws are dangerous to the health of some dogs.

Secondly, mandatory spay & neuter laws allow only LICENSED breeders. Which grouping of breeders have USDA permits? Puppy Mills. Mandatory Spay/Neuter can very well be the end of small time breeders, tell me was the last time you found a responsible breeder with 20+ b*tches?

Finally closed studbooks are a genetic nightmare. Given enough time -  purebreds WILL die out, unless there is outcrossing. No matter how responsible of a breeder you are - closed gene pools will win out in the end. Look at the Norwegian Lundehund - a rare breed with a very closed gene pool. EVERY SINGLE specimen of the breed carries genes for Lundehund syndrome (gastrointestinal disorders that include bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine and protein-losing enteropathy) These are NOT healthy dogs - Lundehund club of america has on their own webpage: "A Norwegian Lundehund's  lifespan is considered unpredictable  due to LUNDEHUND SYNDROME." A small breed dog (under 20lbs) with a mean lifespan of 8. According to research, every Lundehund is affected - there is no way to "breed it out" except with outcrosses to another breed. However, thanks to KC regulations - it ain't happening.

While I'd venture to say that 98.9% of the people on here arguing FOR mixed breed breeding are idiots, the truth is purebred to purebred breeding isn't always the most responsible choice. There are too many "useful" mutts - I will ALWAYS support breeders who breed for function before form - REGARDLESS of "papers". There is no better racing husky than an Alaskan (mutt). No better sighthound than a lurcher (mutt) no better all purpose dog than a farm collie (another mutt).

Breed for PURPOSE not for sport.  

ETA: there are already some incentives in place, In my city it is MUCH cheaper to register a neutered dog (The savings equals that of the surgery - but it's done yearly!) Some insurance companies also have lower rates for neutered dogs. Maybe stricter enforcement of unregistered and leash laws?  Education is the key.

Answer 10

Oh yes....if all dogs are spayed and neutered than there won't be any more doggy woggies left in the world.

So untrue.

IF all dog and cat owners suddenly pulled their heads out of their a**es and became quality, responsible, vigilant owners, I think we would see a massive decline in shelter populations. But, considering most dog owners can't distinguish between the word "spayed" and "spaded" (which sounds terribly painful to me) I think the odds of that happening before the apocalypse are slim to none.

So, in short, as long as people are lazy, there will be mutts. As long as people are too cheap to spay/neuter, there will be mutts. As long as people want to make a quick buck at their b*tch's expense, there will be mutts. As long as people want to show their snot nosed offspring the 'miracle of birth' at their dog's expense (because taking to kids, or renting a birthing DVD, or cracking a book  isn't an option apparently) there will be mutts.

What a sad and greedy species we are.

Answer 11

I still volunteer at the shelter I worked at and I FOR ONE am a believer that there NO SHORTAGE OF MUTTS.... why just the other day I got back from a walk down the road and there are 2 signs up at 2 seperate farms... PUPPYS TO GIVE AWAY.... my being in the animals biz... I have to look in... Lab/sheps and Border Collie/Labs...  first litter 8 second litter 12... yeah well there are 20 mutts right now looking for homes in the Twin Cities metro area in MN.

SADLY I see too many purebred dogs that were quite expensive sitting and rotting in shelters and breed rescues every day... its just not the mutts. People as long as they think they can and they think they have every right will continue to do it.

I personally want to know WHO these crappin EXPERTS are??? BYBS? ex -puppymill breeders??? HOW CAN YOU BE AN EXPERT on something so widespread. These experts have not traveled from state to state and county and country. What a crock of ****.... uggggg... what are they looking at??? ONE shelter in southern California where the population is high? Do they track turn over rates? death rates in dogs of that state? I DONT think so... makes my blood boil

Howldine thanks for bring to the front about foreclosures, its fast becoming a very sickening trend. The amound of dead or dying dogs, tied to trees in back yards, and left in houses, and basements is SKYROCKETING. It is a travesty to say the least.

TY B when did this question turn to how Top Con's don't preach nicely to people about standards? Last I checked it was about shelters running out of mutts. Stay on task then people might not get so offensive with answers. Did you ever think some of us are just plain tired and fed up with no one listening.. Sometimes a BAT is mightier than the PEN.

Damsel you make a great argument on mutts needed for out crossing... as I have said before I dont mind breeding of any dog, as long as it is done RESPONSIBLY... though people with mutts dont seem to take the same measures as those who breed purebreds. In the papers you dont see, Hip checked, eyes checked, genetically tested, Lab/Shep pups with a spay/Neut contract or a return pet policy. IF SOMEONE wanted to breed totally healthy Lab/Shep pups with all the proper checks and balances in place I'd say GO for it. At least some really nice mixed dogs were for sale instead of mal-adjusted time bombs that are being given away to clueless owners. Personally none of my Mutts are breeding material and since I have to deal with over population I am not intrested in breeding mutts, even responsibly. Thankfully my purebreds (Cardigan Welsh Corgis) dont have as many health issues as a Lundehund, though I know Pembrokes have more problems due to close stud books, AKC will not allow a Cardigan to cross with a Pembroke either which could eliminate many problems. They Share almost the same make up but still it wont happen. I agree Registry's help and hinder purebred dogs health. It's a double edge sword.

As for Mandatory S/N... its never going to happen and there is no way to enforce it properly, besides in this democracy too many people cant live with out that freedom to do what they want to with there property. MAN we cant get people to breed responsibly how can we do it with pets.

Answer 12

Howldine, I've seen that argument too and it's stupid as can be.  Our private shelter is full all the time and our county shelter euthanizes daily.  If there were a dog shortage, we'd be the first to know.

They don't have a better argument to fight mandatory spay/neuter for pet animals so they use that tired cliche.  Besides these laws don't ban breeding, they just require a permit or license and require people to breed responsibly.  

I've asked the question several times and none of these people have been able to give me a good answer - If we don't do mandatory spay/neuter to control the overpopulation problem, what would you do instead?  Several decades of PR campaigns and voluntary programs have not solved the problem. An denying the problem exists is a pile of garbage.

Answer 13

I love the fact that people think a purebred dog means inbreeding (see post above) and unhealthy dogs. This then gets people ASSUMING that mutts must be healthy because, they aren't purebred.  Seem's quite silly to me.

Now I know that there are healthy and unhealthy examples on BOTH ends, but a purebred from an ethical breeder has been carefully "created" if you will, and all factors that could lead to an unhealthy life by parentage is virtually erased.  Mutts...not a chance it's like that.

I am 100% supportive of shelters and ethical breeders.  My only "beef" with shelters is that some of them have become so strict and much like hoarders than actually trying to rehome a dog (which is their purpose right?).  I know several great people who could adopt a child before adopting a dog, it's quite ridiculous.  

My dogs are spayed ASAP because I don't want to be put in the work or money to be an ethical breeder.  Kudos to those who do, but I want to enjoy my girls as companions, not risk their lives with breeding.