How would you have played it.?

Question

This hand is from a hand i played last night at the Mirage $125.00 tourney. The blinds were at 200-400 at the time, and i had about 20k at the time. The table is playing pretty loose for the most part, player X has me well covered and is in middle position and opens the pot for 1200. I look down and find A-J of clubs and call. The flop comes out 6-4-J with 2 clubs. Player X leads out for 1500, and i call. The turn comes a queen of spades, giving me a gut-shot draw and the nut flush draw, as well as top pair. Player X bets 3000, and once more i call, the river is a 2 of hearts. Player X thinks for a sec and pushes me all in. I have missed everything so i fold my hand and send a nice pot to Player X. Did i make the right fold? Did i play my hand to weak, should i have made a semi-bluff on the turn or even the flop? I think i played this hand so bad, what do you guys think? Player X never showed his hand but i was sure he had a jack beat, what do you think he had?

Answer 1

I think you made a typo here, there's no gut-shot on the turn, and you don't have top pair, you have second ....

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That being said, I don't have a lot of problems with how you played it.

Preflop, there was no reason to raise.  AJc is a fairly solid hand to play, but until you see a flop it's nothing special.

Post-flop, you have two options, a call of 1500 on a pot of 4500 (I assume the blinds both folded) or a raise to 4000-5000.  If your raise is called, you're playing for a huge pot, if it's reraised, it makes you pot-committed with this hand, and while it's not a bad hand to push with, you have position, so why ruin that advantage?  Personally, I'd just call there.

Post-turn, you have a 3000 call for a 9000 pot.   The downside is you only have 2nd pair with an A, and the flush draw.  I'd figure I have about 14 outs (clubs, JJ and AAA,) and maybe a 15% chance that I'm already ahead.  So you could fold (seems weak,) go all-in (and risk your entire tournament on one read + one card) or call, and then play the river accordingly.  At the risk of being redundant, personally, I'd just call there.

Post river.  You missed, he's playing like he hit, you still have 15K.  I realize that he's chip leader at a loose table, and that his bets smell like continuation bets, but do you really think you should've called off ALL your chips on second pair?

While acknowledging you had other options for this hand, I think you picked the most profitable plays, and they just didn't work out.

Answer 2

with no info on how this other player was playing previous hands,  I have to say that I would have made the call.  my gut says he was trying to buy the pot... and it worked.

Answer 3

Haven't I answered this question already???/lol Well here we go again.  A/J is one of the toughest hands to play.  After following advice I have seen in numerous articles I do one of two things.  At a loose table such as the one you are discribing, I would re-raise preflop for a couple of reasons.  One if I am re-re-raised, I know I am beat by an A/A, K/K or A/K (tournament play).  If I am just smooth called, I can generally rule those hands out so at least I have an idea where I am in the hand. I also have slowed down my opponent, he can put me on a big pair now and I have saved my possition.  He did a standard preflop raise, and at a loose table, with his possition, it could be a wide range of hands, from medium pp to paint connectors,etc...by him smooth calling, he just narrowed that range for me, he did alot of my work.

On that flop, since you you hit top pair, top kicker with nut flush draw, you take control.  His odds of doing a c-bet have been lowered, because he can put you on a hand beating the board, so you fire out something a little bigger than a c-bet.  If he fires out, go over him, once again if he smooth calls, you know where you are.  If he comes over you, well, you can call, re-raise, or fold (or the bold move is all in).  Hopefully when the turn hits, you still have control of the pot, and unless he just hit a set of queens, or has the a/k, you should.  (I don't see him with that though simply because of the smooth call on the preflop raise). One thought I had after answering this question over in card games, how fast are the blinds increasing, if fast of course that affects what is going on, both his play and yours and how many chips are there?  I hate being chip leader at final table and having a M of 3.5 or 4 which isn't uncommon in tournaments of this size.  If it is your typical low to mid level buyin tournament, you have fast blinds, and low chip ammounts so aggression is the only way to play if you are in.  

As I stated in my other answer to this question, you never had an idea where you were in the hand, you played it like it was a  draw (which it was) and he played it like he knew you missed your draw (which you did).  He had control of the pot from the second he opened it until the second he was stacking the chips.  I still don't think you were beat, if you were, he wouldn't have pushed, he would have value betted, but he figured you missed your draw and wanted to take away your ability to bluff at the pot on the river.  I believe he had a mid pair, or a missed flush draw too.  good luck.

Answer 4

He may have had an over pair, with the amout of chips that you had, you may have re raised to see where you are at in the hand. With top pair top kicker, and the best draw, showing a little strength would send a message to the rest of the table. If he played back at you at the time your probably beat.

Answer 5

What can say that has already not been said?  I would have re raised on the Flop with top pair and the nut flush draw, with a raise of 2/3 to a pot raise I think you would have taken the hand right there.  You said he was a lose player so he have QJ, KQ.  I lean towards the KQ and made a continuation bet on the flop and called his hand on the turn.  Pretty sure he put you on a flush draw and felt he could you off with the big bet.

Must add great question.

Answer 6

I probably would have done the same. He could have been bluffing, but i doubt it. He probably had another queen. You can tell by the bet he placed on the "turn". That was key. But people tell me i'm the cautious type, your probably the same.

Answer 7

I can't speak for player X, but I feel pretty certain he had at least a pair of Jacks.

A semi-bluff off the flop would have done you nicely with two clubs on the table -- there was no way he had anything more than a set by the turn.

It's good you held off on the turn; that queen did nothing for you. In your situation, I'd've folded on the turn too.  But you might've scared him on the flop had you given a good-sized bet.

Answer 8

I think you should have raised it up to about $4k after his bet on the flop. If he calls that bet, he's probably got like KQ or AK, looking to hit an over card or a straight. If he's got a pocket over pair or trips, he's going to push in right there to get you off a straight or flush draw, knowing he crushes you if you hit the jack. If he has anything else he'll most likely muck his hand.

If he just called, then he most likely hit that queen somehow, and you can be confident he has you beat. Plus by raising, you saved $500 and gave yourself the best chance to win the hand (He's going to put in a huge raise on the turn that you can't call, or check it to you, giving you a free draw at the flush) .