I don't know what angle to go after with this anti guner. Actually kind of more anti-hunting.?

Question

I have told him about how hunting as good for state economies and animal population but... He's a vegetarian but I don't think he's a animal right nutcase like the ones firebombing homes in kalifornistan.

Here's his quote:

"I'm anti-hunting on a personal level, and anti-sport hunting on as high as level as possible. I, personally, don't consume any animal products, but if I were to start again, I really wouldn't feel comfortable unless I were killing the animal with as primitive tools as possible and using 100% of the body.

I understand guns only as a defense, but most gun owners I know use them as a tool for intimidation. Don't forget that people killed with cars include people killed as the result of drunk driving, which I'm also vehemently against.

I'm just really unsettled by the fact that individuals who own guns for 'ersonal defense' can own a ridiculous amount. For defense purposes, it seems like you'd need maybe three at most."

Answer 1

I've thought about this, and ingaged in this argument many times with my friends. The vast majority of my freinds are liberals, and about 75% of them are somewhat anti-gun by my standards. but most of them can handle hearing and arguing with an oposing view point with out becoming hysterical. My freinds are about as liberal as they come, but i dont know anyone who thinks guns should be illegal, they just want "regulation" but enough about that

This is what ive found to be most effective with the anti-hunting crowd.

"When you go to a grocery store to buy say, steak, the pieces of meat your buying came from an animal who spent there whole lives living in filthy, crowded horible living conditions. That animal spent the last moments of it's life seeing another animal of the same type being killed. then the animal is brought to stand in the same spot where it can still see the animal that was just standing in front of it being ripped to pieces. When the time comes for that animal to die, it may or may not be quick and painless. often, they have to try several times before they succesfuly knock the animal unconcious. When a person goes hunting, they take the life of animal who has lived out a far happier and far more natural existance. the animal has had a good life, and as long as you eat the meat of the animal your killing, your saving some other animal from  a far more cruell fate. personaly I don't believe in the idea of hunting for "sport" I only think it is right to take the life of an animal if you plan on eating it, or you plan to feed it to another animal. Killing for food has been the natural order of things since the dawn of man kind. A man using a weapon to kill an animal is no more unnatural then a lion taking the life of a zebra to feed it's cubs. We are all animals.

Humans have been blessed with natural intellegnce. This is an evolutionary advantage that we attained mearly by chance. This advantage allows us to gather food far more effeciently then any other animal. It is not wrong for us to use our suppirior intellegence to make weapons that help us hunt, any more then it is wrong for a cheatah to use it's ability to run faster then any other  animal to hunt. True, humans do have a subsatntial advantage over say a deer, but a hawk has a total advantage over a fish when it swoops down from the air and effortlessly plucks one from the water. The hawk is in very little danger of being hurt when it does this, just like we are in little danger of being hurt while hunting for a deer, although even we humans die sometimes on these outings. I understand and repspect anyones oppinion, so long as they have thought it out for themselves, with out just listing to what their people have told them to think. I dont think its wrong to eat meat because humans are natural carnivors, I do think its wrong to kill for fun becuase this is not a part of the natural order of things, at least it wasnt until we came along. It is important to stay in harmony with nature, and never take away more then the earth can naturly give back. When an animal becomes overpopultaed in an area for whatever reason it upsets the the natural balance and it WILL be corrected either through slow and painful starvation for that animal, or through relativly quick and painless death from a predator like us."

Also I might add that I once thought as he did about how a person should hunt with primitve weapons that he made by hand. but then I thought of how much more terror, pain and suffering an animal would suffer from primitve weapons. A good sportsman kills his prey with out making it suffer unnecesarily. It would only be appropriate tyo use a spear or atlatl if you were extremly skilled with it

good luck

Answer 2

Your opinion is your opinion. you should understand his point of view put still stick up for yours if he tries to change it. you have reasons and so does he.

" A man who stands for nothing, will fall for anything." Quote from some famous dead dude.

Answer 3

This is what I would say:

And as an anti-hunter what gives you the right to force your life-style on others?  So you don't consume animal products?  Really?  You mean you never wear leather shoes, belts or coats.  Your car is not upholstered in leather?  How about your home or office, no leather there either?

Who do you know that uses guns as tools for intimidation and why haven't your reported them to the authorities?  To intimidate anyone with a gun is a chargeable offense.  The arrest title is:  Assault by Threat.  In the old days we just called it:  Rudely displaying a dangerous weapon.

What do you consider a ridiculous amount?  Ever heard that we live in a free country?  So long as guns are lawfully acquired why should there be a limit?  I own several guns and I don't take food from my family's table to own them.  In fact, during a time in my life when I was between jobs (through no fault of my own) I kept food on the table because I have those guns and am an able hunter.

Finally, why are you against Nature?  Hunting is the natural order of things.  Wolves hunt.  Lions hunt.  Bears hunt.  Your pet cat hunts. Even lambs hunt for greener pastures and Man is a hunter/gatherer.  You're the freak who doesn't hunt and who claims not to use animal products.  Are you offended?  You shouldn't be.  Those are just the facts of life.  That's just how it is.  Deal with it.

End of discussion.

H

Answer 4

All I would say is to each his own!*

Answer 5

This is a highly opinionated person and you are highly unlikely to change his mind.  Why bother with him?  You are only wasting your time.  Most of these nuts don't realize that they are using animal products even though they don't actually eat the animal.  Many things are made using animal products such as ointments, cosmetics, shoes, belts, and the list goes on and on.  Don't waste your time on him because you are never going to stop him from mumbling his confused ideas.  All you will do is to stir him up and get him going even more vehemently.  Let the fool lie.

Answer 6

The next time you talk to this person, check to see if he's wearing a leather belt and/or shoes.  If he is, point out that leather for his apparel came from a dead animal.

Answer 7

" Society will forever judge Hunters by their Compassion for the Animals that they Hunt for and Harvest." Those people who Criticize, Condemn, Complain, and put down Hunting have no Justifiable, Credible, or Valid reason for doing so.* 75% of the people in America approve of Hunting.* 25% do not approve of Hunting.* Only 15% out of all the eligible people in America actually do Hunt.* 85% of the people who could Hunt if they chose to, do not Hunt.* Hunters in America are a small Minority.* You will never be able to convince any man or woman against their own beliefs and preconceived thoughts about Hunting.* You cannot reason with any unreasonable person.* " Father forgive them for they know not what they do."..." Hunting is Fun and Enjoyable for those who chose to participate in it, Killing is neither Fun or Enjoyable."...  

Answer 8

G'day mate i hate vegetarians they kill plant's and eat them we need to protect plants and stop vegetarians from eating them, thay are taking the food out of animal's mouth's.I saw a veggie mucher eat a plant and the root's were dangling down, that poor plant leave them alone you vegetarian bullie's common guy's and girl's lets protect the plant's from the vegtarian's.cheers mate

Answer 9

"I were killing the animal with as primitive tools as possible"

then he wouldn't last long, most people dont know the work that goes into hunting, they think we walk in the woods and shoot at everything in sight. but he has the right to think what he wants to think, just as you do. so let him be.

Answer 10

Hunting and a carnivorous diet have been a vital part of the human experience for 99.9% of our history. In only a few cultures and then in modern urban times has the concept of a vegetarian lifestyle been even considered. I respect your freedom to choose, but for the most part I consider myself a carnivorous predator, just as I think nature intended me to be.

You may wish to think of yourself as more 'evolved' than our recent forefathers, but I think we are just like them but maybe a bit less hairy, plus we use utensils to eat.

If you are arrogant enough to believe that humans have somehow reached a higher state of being or evolution, please consider the fact that experts have estimated that in the 20th century man killed more of their fellow human beings in war than were killed in war in the entire history of civilization before that. We are not better than or recent forefathers that lived in caves...... and in many ways worse.  

You may find this hard to understand but most hunters have a huge amount of respect for the animals they hunt. It is almost spiritual the way we view animals. We are moral people who strive for a quick and as painless kill as possible. It is part of our culture to take pride in a swift dispatch of our prey. Anyone that takes pleasure in the suffering of an animal is considered as abhorrent as you can imagine. We don't tolerate it.

Understanding this, a well designed slug from a high powered firearm that destroys the heart and lungs of an animal immediately and brings a peaceful end quickly is the most humane way of harvesting wild game.

Your proposal that privative tools be used to me equates to unnecessary cruelty, suffering and torture. Think about what you are proposing.

I think it's sad that the gun owners you have known have used them as a means of intimidation. For every bully out there, there are a hundred noble and honorable gun owners who would never think of that.

The people have power not through the pen or the voting booth but through their ability to enforce their power by force if need be. The American Revolution over 200 years ago set into motion a worldwide revolution of power by the people that many in the world still fight today. For over 2000 years the reality of democracy was unknown, until a few well armed men decided they could beat the paid henchmen of a king.

That single act in recent history should not be underestimated in the progress of mankind. Mao said that "all political power comes from the barrel of a gun" and no truer words have ever been spoken. As soon as he took power and disarmed his "people" every free-thinker, educated person, writer, artist and intellectual were rounded up and put into camps that most did not survive. The Second Amendment to the US Constitution has nothing to do with hunting and everything to do with you living in a society that is run by the people.

Why you and your kind are not arming yourselves is a source of perpetual wonder for me. Reason and emotion have never exerted any power in the course of human events....do you think things have changed?  

Answer 11

Tell him that America is free. He is free to believe what he wants, and you what you want.

Then tell him to pound sand, he sounds like an A@# h%$#!!!

Answer 12

If he is someone you want to be friends with the angle you use is simple. You agree to disagree and find other topics to discuss.  

Answer 13

I'm not sure I would bother with the guy unless I was in a crowd of fence sitters

He is obviously young with little to no real life experience and still holds on to the idealistic notions of that inexperienced youth

His statements about hunting out him as the classic Bambi hugger

He sees hunting as some sort of uneven contest where the animal is at the disadvantage, nothing could be more untrue, but the hunter has a gun so he has to have the advantage

This also is untrue

The kill is the final part of the hunt, which more often than not for more hunters than not ends up with the hunter sitting in a tree all day because the prey outsmarted him

Hunting is also not only about meat it is about conservation and game management as well, but his vision of Thumper, Bambi, and the Skunk frolicking in the meadow will never let him see that

As far as "primitive hunting

Show him that video of the Persistence Hunt

How anyone can see a human forcing an animal to run to the point of total exhaustion and then while the animal is laying helpless to kill it in the most brutal fashion with the "most primitive" (meaning least efficient) weapon he can find is well beyond my reasoning abilities

Humans are better equipped to run long distance and have the ability to reason so can follow the tracks and anticipate the animals movements.

The human will also know when he has tax himself and will quit before he runs himself to death

Anyone who thinks this is a noble hunt has never run a long distance race or played a football game to the point of gut wrenching exhaustion

And I think every one here knows my opinion of the marketing term "Sport Hunting"

This idealistic notion that you should eat what you kill is good to a point but not when you start extending it to vermin

As far as more than three guns

STFU

What possible difference does it make how many guns I have>

I can only use one or two at a time

People who own guns simply for defense rarely have more than three, or one even

Those of us with more consider ourselves collectors who also have a few for defense

But this is typical of the judgmental little pricks

You have more than he thinks you should or more than he could afford so you are wrong

Tell him to write all his idealistic ramblings down on paper and then put them in a ten year time capsule

At the end of that time he should dig them up and read them

I bet he will laugh at himself

Answer 14

Tell him it's not just about hunting and it's not just about personal defense. It's true there are some idiots out there with that have no business owning a gun, but the more educated one is, the better owner they are.

Shooting is an art in itself. The tools of the trade are precision, often handmade pieces of machinery. Guns by themselves are a beautiful mix of history, technology AND function. Proof of that is that avid shooters are actually more concerned with accuracy than they are the shooting itself. It's a complex mix of breathing, patience, technique and skill.

When someone is an enthusiast, it's not about having ONE to do the job because each tool serves a different purpose. You can't expect a maranthon runner to have ONE pair of shoes, a competitive racer to have ONE bicycle, nor an artist to have ONE brush.

Yes it is fun to just shoot BANG BANG BANG downrange for fun, but it's the shooters equivalent of racing down the steep hill, doing a canonball instead of a perfect dive, or hacking at some golf balls at the driving range.

Offer to take him to the range and shoot a 10/22, and afterwards join him for some soy burgers and tempe. It may sway him!