I need help training my dog.?

Question

I continually read on here that my dog naturally "wants to please" me, and "loves" me, and that all training methods should be positive so that I do not diminish that "desire to please", or teach him to fear me, instead of "love" me.

So - I really need help!. My dog would rather chase a squirrel than please me by staying. My dog would rather chase a squirrel than be distracted by a treat held in front of his nose. My dog would rather choke himself until he vomits when on a flat collar, trying to chase a squirrel.

I was under the impression that this was because of his high prey drive, and that training tools such as a prong collar, appropriate physical corrections, and lots of training would help.

Now, it's apparent that it is all because of his lack of "love" for me, and that fact that he would rather please himself than "please me".

So - how do you get your dog to love you and want to please you to the extent it overcomes it's natural drives???

Answer 1

Well, if you want your dog to LOVE you, here's what you do:

1.)  Make sure that you ONLY feed him table scraps.  I mean, would YOU want to have dog food all the time?  YUCK!

2.)  He should be allowed to sit on the couch- all the time.  In fact, he should be allowed to have your bed as well.  You should have to sleep/lounge on the floor- see hou YOU like it!

3.)  Throw his crate away!  Let's put you in a cage and see how YOU lke it!

4.)  Make sure that you have enough clothes for him.  It gets cold during the winter- wouldn't want him to get frost bite on his f***y!  How would you like it if YOU didn't get to wear clothes during a snowstorm?

5.)  No silly haircuts- how would YOU like to have bushy eyebrows like he has?

6.)  You shouldn't make him do anything he doesn't want to do.  It's cruel.  How would YOU like to have to do whatever someone else told you?

Now- all that being said- wine, chocolate, flowers, and a bubble bath once a week should work!

Good luck!

Answer 2

you have to play with it a lot. and if a squirrel comes get it away from it. also try not to bribe it because if the dog does something good and you dont have a treat then the dog will stop being good.  

Answer 3

First, let me thank you for asking this exact same question I was going to ask tomorrow....

Now, on to Kip's problems and the fact that he does not want to please you..are you surprised...if so, why?

Would it be because all of the "experts" here tell you that all dogs were born to please and that since we domesticated them that is all they want to do?

I mean, isn't that the very reason they became domesticated after approaching us first..to please us?

LMAO!!!! Dogs work out of a few very fundamental drives..one of which is the pack drive, the most important drive and the reason why dogs do what they do and the other being all the different drives that make up a dog, hunt, prey, defense, etc.

No dog will ever do anything that will not satisfy one of these drives, just like no dog will ever do anything that is not drive related, period!

No dog has ever or will ever want to please us, just because we think it should, they want to please the drives that make up their world.

That is why I laugh when I read and hear about all the positive only training methods that are being spewed like gospel during the last 10 years. That is why I laugh when I hear about the dog not coming back when offered a treat, while chasing a squirel.

Dogs do not care about us, they care about themselves and about their drives..some people get this and are able to train a dog with excellent results and some people will try to train one and never do it.

Bottom line, final word...no drive satisfaction, no favorable response from the dog, end of story.

PS. For those that do not undertand what that means and want to tell me about how their dogs respond favorably and follow them around like prison hoes all day...the dog has weak temperament and all he/she cares about is survival that he/she cannot achieve in its own, it needs you and will do whatever it takes to make it, but, that is still following a drive..maybe someone here can tell me which!

Hope I helped

ADD: Ah..I see my adoring fans and the "expert" dog behaviorists have come out and did not like my answer, I wonder why?

Would someone, anyone of these experts care to refute me and give me their version of why dogs behave the way they do...anyone?

Answer 4

Actually dogs just always try to please themselves. They learn through a process called conditioning, which means that they repeat behaviors that get them good results and stop behaviors that get them bad results. For some dogs, attention and affection from their owner *is* a great reward, and so they will perform all kinds of behaviors/commands to earn it. For other dogs, food is a greater motivator, so they work to earn the food.

I have a Shiba Inu. He is a hunting dog so he is extremely reactive to squirrels and cats. One thing that I have tried to do, is to desensitize him to these things. First of all you must stand far away from the cat (pet cats are easier than squirrels because they usually just lounge around and don't move much). Stand far enough away from the sleepy cat so that your dog is not reacting. Call his name, and treat him, keep repeating. Once he seems able to handle this, move one or two steps foward, call his name and repeat. If your dog loses focus and starts reacting to the cat, you have moved too close too fast and he is no longer learning anything. Move back to a non-reactive distance and repeat. Keep sessions short and end on a positive note.

This desensitization exercise may work to blunt some of your dog's prey drive, but it will always be there. My dog is still reactive to certain cats especially cats that run away from him because that really triggers his prey drive. As soon as I notice him starting to focus/obsess, I walk him briskly away. Dogs are still predators and they will always like to hunt, some more so than others.

Add: Yes aversive techniques like leash corrections can work. They give dogs a bad response, so the dog will stop the behavior to avoid the bad response. Note that time-outs which is a reward technique, (i.e., taking away a reward), is also a bad response for the dog so it can also be used to stop bad behaviors. The problem with aversive techniques is that it can sometimes backfire and cause the dog to learn the wrong thing. Dogs can also become habituated to the pain and no longer respond to it after a while, then you must keep increasing the force of your corrections. Ultimately you are the best judge of what works best for your dog and what kind of relationship you want to have with him.

Answer 5

if you dog tries to chase the squirrel, try turning around and walking away until he/she walks with you properly. And if he/she does it again, do the same thing.  But you should always praise it to let it know that he/she's doing the right thing.

This is what i did with my dog, and now, she's excellent on the lead, and off!

Just keep trying, it'll take time, but it'll be worth it :)

Answer 6

LOL HAhaha..... I can just see it. My dog does the SAME thing with cats! Funny though, she loves all our other pets and woudn't dare hurt them- rabbits, rats, snakes, etc. I don't remember what breed of dog you have though but it sounds like a terrier (or hound.)

But, no it's not lack of love or pleasing himself. :) I use a prong collar too, but she still lunges.

When did you get your dog? I adopted mine as an adult, and she had no training at all before I got her. She's already very strong and hard to control, that's why I went from positive reinforcement, to a gentle-leader, to the pronged collar! My trainer says you have to have a "puppy party" and do whatever it takes to make YOU more exciting than the distraction at first, then he will learn from positive reinforcement (and treats.)

Keep trying, I am having a hard time too!

Oh, Schnauzer! :) Mini schnauzers are surprisingly in the terrier group in the AKC. :) I was close!

Answer 7

why worry he is never going to catch a squirrel . so why not get him a toy one and play with it with him

Answer 8

He is still trying to please you.

He's trying to fetch you a squirrel for dinner.

Answer 9

For some dogs, training is longer.  When I go my old dog Blue, sit was a hassle.  After about a year of trial and error with him, He finally learned it.  I'm sure you've already done this, but make sure he knows it for long periods of time inside the house, somewhere you can block off the world so he isn't as distracted.  Then, when he learns that real well, start integrating small distractions.  Just one at a time.  Then increase them.  And so on and so forth.

I don't use those training collars.  I don't use a collar, nor a harness.  I have yet to train my current dog with distractions.  I've been trying to get a long training leash, but with my father staying home as much as he is, it's not going to happen soon.  But I have researched and watched a lot of things about training.  I have read almost every training book in my local library.

Good Luck!!

Also, your dog does want to please you, but sometimes there is that one distraction that drives them crazy.  Like Jasmine and "Leave It".  She knows that one all too well.  But sometimes, there is that one smell she gets that she doesn't listen.  And sometimes we can go for walks and the whole walk she'll listen to everything me and my brother tell her, and sometimes we go through the whole walk and she didn't listen at all.

ADD:  I read one answer about focus.  What you could do is teach him the command "watch me".  Hold the treat to your eye level and say "watch me" whenever he looks at you (until he knows the command).  When you finally are able make him watch you for longer periods of time, when his eyes stray away from yours, say "ah-ah. watch me."  I think you know what to do after that.

Answer 10

There's a great book out called "Control Unleashed" you can get it from http://www.dogwise.com  The author discusses using the premack principle to get your dog to focus on you. Basically, it teaches the dog that in order to get what he wants, he needs to do what you want - and what you and he want, is the same! OK - sounds complicated but it really isn't - just check out th book.

On the other hands, your comments make me feel like I should elaborate a bit about the "dog wants to please you" bit.  That's being a bit anthropmorphic and not truly understanding the nature of more positive dog training methods like operant conditioning. If you read Jean Donaldson's "Culture Clash" she explains it more - dog are dogs, not humans - they don't feel "guilt" "remorse" or "work to make mommy happy."  The point of using positive training techniques is actaully that a happy dog, who is working with you, not against you (in a battle of wills as in positive punishment training such as the use of a prong collar).  

Those amazing stunts you see dogs do in animal planet and ESP - dogs running like the wind, jumping through hurdles, flying to the flyball box are possible because the dog has taken that same prey drive that is driving you crazy and redirected it into something the owner wants. Now the dog and owner are each vested in the performance and the dog thinks it's a game. Because he thinks it a game, he does his work with drive and those magnificant performances are possible.  

Right now, your dog doesn't see why he should listen to you.  Dogs are creatures of thousands of years of evalutionary history.  You dogs basic needs are hard wired into him. That includes hunting and food. So far, you haven't shown your dog that by listening to you, he gains something greater than hunting that squirrel.  You need to redirect his focus by showing him that working with you is BETTER than chaising that squirell or that by working with you, he will GET to chase that squirrel, maybe even be more successful at it?

So anyway, in short - read those two books:

1) Control Unleashed and

2) The Culture Clash

They can expalin these principles of positive training and how they work far better than I can in this short post.  

Answer 11

Great questions Kips Mom.

I have the same issue with my Dobermann b*tch Tori, who absolutely loves to chase squirrels that thankfully shoot up the nearest tree, rabbits, she will crash her way through undergrowth to follow it and ducks, she has splashed her way energetically after one.

Would she come back just to please me? Nope, I could call her until I was hoarse! For a treat? No way, because she loves to chase. I asked a trainer once how I could be more interesting than something alive and furry and didn't receive a helpful reply. No-one ever mentioned a prong collar or an electric collar as a training aid.

Chasing is natural to Tori, it pleases her no end. Correction will get the desired response from her and then I will be very pleased.

Answer 12

Lol, the first poster has it! Sort of. Schnauzers were bred to hunt rodents. A squirrel is a rodent. Centuries ago they pleased their owners by hunting them - your dog is doing the same (providing you are talking about the schnauzer...?)

So you've got the dog's natural hunting instincts (prey drive) coupled with the breeds purpose (killing rodents) to deal with. Add in that schnauzer stubborness and you've got yourself some issues lol.

My own dog (half schnauzer) is the same way with squirrels and birds. Got to the point where she would lunge at them. So with a little bit of advice/support from greekman and lots of help from our trainer i used a Prong collar and some intense obedience work - BOOM it was gone in about three weeks.

Some behaviors are harder to get rid of because the individual dog has been doing them for so long. He's been getting away with it, which might make him think that he IS pleasing you. So try to show him (with advice from a trainer) that he ISN'T pleasing you with that behavior, and show him what behavior WILL please you.

Answer 13

It isn't a lack of desire to please... it is a lack of focus.

You have to train your dog to focus, and hold his attention on one action.

I won't write a very long answer... just some pointers.

Dogs respond to positive commands, not negative ones. You will never be able to train him to "not chase squirrels". But, you CAN train him to "sit" and "stay" so well that he is focusing only on sitting and staying so much, that he doesn't pay attention to the squirrels.

You never mentioned the breed or size.... so i'm assuming it's a medium to large dog.

Start with sit. Look up online various training methods for teaching "sit", choose the one you like, and apply it consistently.

Drill your dog on the sit command in environments with no distractions, like at home in a quiet room until he is 100% obedient.

Then, you start adding various distractions... like other people around talking or perhaps shouting...people throwing a ball around him....

Expose him to all these distractions, and then try training him in different envionments, like outside or in a busy park. Keep drilling him until he sits on command under any circumstance. THEN try it in an envionment where squirrels are present.

By the way... whether using a flat collar or a barbed one, never allow the dog to just pull until possible injury. when he pulls, yank him back and give him slack..... then repeat until he learns that pulling will only get him a yank. soon he'll be walking on a loose leash.