If ALI was not stripped of his title and prime would JOE FRAZIER merely been DAVID TUA of the Hippie era?

Question

Ali's very best years would have probably been between 67 and 70

Sometime during that period Joe Frazier would have been given a shot at Ali's title

If you are of the opinion that Ali's prime years would have been a little too much for Joe to handle would that then mean that Frazier would have been thought of as simply a DAVID TUA type contender of the late 60's and early 70's

A very feared HIGHLY DANGEROUS left hooker who skill wise would have been in over his head with Ali much the same way that Tua was with Lewis

Answer 1

no way frazier was a good fighter and a great champ.he fought well against ali all 3 times.that why 2 of them are called the greatest fights of all time.

Answer 2

Its hard to say that he would of been in over his head with Ali, if there is any one fighter that got in the ring with the greatest and held his own it has to be Smokin Joe. I agree that we were robbed of Alis greatest years because of the Vietnam thing but i still believe that if he had fought during these years he would of still ran into a major problem in Frazier, Joe had a lot of the skills in his locker that proved to be dangerous to Ali pressure fighting was one but the main one was that lethal Left hook if there was one shot that Ali seemed to be succeptable to it was the Left hook and Joe was probably the main fighter to show this, although others had caught him out with hooks before. Also would seem strange to me to compare Frazier with Tua, you are right Tua was shown to be lacking as a top level fighter against Lennox but apart from being destroyed by Foreman i cant remember Joe ever being out of his depth with anyone and there was a lot of great fighters in the Heavyweight division in Joes era unlike Tuas.

Answer 3

NO DISRESPECT TO FRAZIER( GREAT CHAMPION)

Frazier vs Ali before the exile would have been a great fight. Once Muhammad returned he had lost so much steam and wasn't half as fast as he was before he retired. Joe was very good at cutting the ring off but Muhammad was like nothing ever seen in a Heavyweight. Ali took Frazier the distance after a 4 year layoff he didn't win but the fact still remains his legs still had enough juice to last the full fight with Frazier and he wasn't even the same man he was before he was stripped. So i don't think Joe would have one the first fight If Ali hadn't been stripped Muhammad would have danced around him all night. If Frazier had a hard time catching Ali after a four year exile i don't think Ali in his prime would have been any easy er to catch. His legs would have been fresh,reflexs,no ring rust  to work off. Frazier was a great champion but all of those things Muhammad had lost over the four years is what gave Joe his biggest advantage. With that being gone he would have got what Floyd Patterson got.

Answer 4

cassius clay of 1964 would of destroyed joe frazier but joe frazier was still great ali beat alot of great fighters but he was the greatest truly the best of all time as far as the heavyweights

Answer 5

I strongly believe that frazier could beat ali in his prime for one simple reason, Frazier had the style to to trouble ali in the ring, Ali liked to control the pace of the fight from the outside, especially when he was in his prime. Although in his prime Ali was extremely fast and quite good on the inside frazier was always the better inside fighter and if he managed to catch ali with his left right combination then the fight would be similar to the first ali/frazier fight. Moreover frazier was defeating every opponent he faced before he faced foreman therefore i think he would still be a dominant fighter if Ali had never been stripped of his title.

Answer 6

ALI - FRAZIER 1 Would have happened in 1969 had Ali not been forced into exile.  There is NO DOUBT in my mind that Ali would have destroyed Frazier.  

Frazier was a pressure fighter and that did trouble Ali.  However, you must understand that Ali's BEST YEARS were taken away from him.  Ali was just entering his prime in 67 when he had his last fight.   He was Just as Fast as he was in 64 but stronger.  

When he returned in late 70 he was a bit heavier but Very Much "Leg Heavy"  in the sense that he couldn't move as well.  

PEOPLE FORGET: that Ali didn't Always dance.  Sometimes he remained Just Out Of Reach in order to hit and not be hit in return.  

The Difference would be that Joe would not be able to corner Ali as often as he did.   He would land Fewer punches and his success would come only in spurts.   Ali, on the other hand, would land More often because he would not be slowed by the constant body attack because Frazier wouldn't be able to inflict as much punishment.  

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Frazier won the 71 fight and THAT is the basis of his claim to greatness.   Frazier won the fight.............but he LOST the war.  He was NEVER the same after the 71 fight.  That fight took A LOT out of Frazier.   You ever wonder why Frazier wouldn't give Ali a rematch?   Their Fight 2 didnt happen until Joe NEEDED to fight Ali again..........AFTER his loss to the Young Forman...............Take the 71 fight away and SEE what is left of Joe's career.   I take nothing away from Frazier but FACTS are FACTS......................................

Everyone who fought Ali is "Boosted" up a notch.  People still think Jerry Quarry was great because he FOUGHT ALi.  But how well did he DO against Ali?              The same holds true for Ken Norton.  He beat a post-prime, unmotivated Ali.  But What else did Norton do?  He, too, would have lost miserably against a Prime Ali.  

Frazier  was a Great Opponent for the man who is Widely regarded at THe Greatest..............It doesn't necessarily make him the greatest because he holds a victory over the Greatest.   IF that is the case, Randy Turpin is Great for his win over Robinson.   Frazier performed well against a Post-Prime Ali.  However,  Many whom Ali would,  and Have,  beaten would beat Frazier.

The BIG Problem here is that SOMETHING, not SOMEONE,  HAD to beat Ali.   Its just the thinking of the times for MANY reasons,  not just the "Draft" or "Black Muslim"  thing .    When you stand as high above the rest as Ali stood,  EVERYONE wants to see if anything can take you down.  Ali held his status well.   Its too bad others couldn't see it that way.    

He would have reached the mid 70s before anyone would have beaten him in the ring.   He might become bored and have an off night and lost to a young strong contender.  

There would not have been a third fight with Frazier because he was SO Destroyed by the first  (even tho he won)  that it's hard to imagine a 3rd.   The rematch would have been a classic.  

There would have been only 2 fights with Norton and maybe a second with Forman, whom Ali would have beaten easier than he actually did in 74.

IF he fought long enough he might lose a close fight to a young strong Larry Holmes.    Styles make fights and Holmes spells all kinds of trouble for a post-Prime Ali.    Remember,  only 10 months separate Holmes and Forman in age.  

Its is Quite Possible that Ali might Never have lost had it not been for the US Govt.

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As for Frazier,  He would likely have never won the title.  Someone might pull an "Ernie Terrell"  and "Lend"  Joe a portion of the title.   That is Very possible.  That would only set up Ali-Frazier 2 or 3, depending on Ali's schedule.    

The Rivalry  (greatest in boxing)  was created as much by their respective styles as was the fact that Joe had something that was Unfairly TAKEN from ALI.   Had that not happened,  Frazier would not have become Ali's chief nemesis.   There would not be the need for the personal attacks because Joe doesn't have anything Ali wants.  

Frazier would enjoy his term as WBA champion until the rematch with Ali.  He would lose the rematch.  After a few more fights--------He and Norton would be forced to fight,  Frazier wins,  and a contender loss to Forman---------Frazier would retire in 1974 and be content to live with his family in Philadelphia.  With the division being so "Top Heavy"  and little chance of ever winning the title,  there would be nothing left to prove.

Answer 7

You have a good point, except I think Frazier has more guts than Tua ever did. Frazier would have gone out on his shield firing away at Ali.