If God created h**l and Jesus is God and Christians love Jesus...?

Question

If God created h**l and if Jesus is God, then Jesus creates eternal torture and the grand design that routes people to it. But Christians often say they love Jesus. The reason seems to be that he sacrifices himself to himself to appease himself as a work-around so his believers will be spared the eternal torture he created.

How can you love Jesus, the creator of this system? Do Christians secretly think it was Satan that created h**l? Or do you believe that h**l is really emotional and spiritual torture consisting of eternal separation from Jesus/God? Then how do you love the creator of eternal emotional/spiritual torture?

I hope people will continue to challenge every part of this question and i apologize for bringing it up in the Philosophy section and not R&S.

But just to clarify, given some confusion I may have inadvertently generated through my wording, this is an if-then question. I do not state that God did create h**l. I asked an IF-THEN question. For the record, the question should probably read:

IF you think God maintains a place of eternal torture, and IF you think Jesus is God, and IF you love Jesus, THEN how can you have those thoughts (God/Jesus maintains a place of eternal torture) together with that feeling (love for God/Jesus)?

I ask how these three items can coexist in one person:

1. the belief that God maintains a place of eternal torture

2. the belief that Jesus is God

3. love of Jesus

Please continue to challenge any part and/or all of this question, including an assumptions or implications with which you disagree.

Thank you, everybody, for fascinating, challenging responses.

Answer 1

Jesus is God the Creator. He created h**l for satan and his angels, not for man. All who reject His sacrifice on the cross for our sins will end up in h**l. You must be born again to avoid h**l. Gods love is that He gave His life on the cross so we could AVOID dying in our sins. No greater love than a man lay down His life for his friends.

Answer 2

Amazingly, I have just read a piece by Khalil Gibran which has just reaffirmed my belief in God, by reminding me that I also have to believe in the Devil.  Now being a gentlemen and no scholar, I have too say that you have missed that one important piece of the puzzle by not including the Devil.  As for me, Jesus is less and less fitting into the equation.  Gibran stated that Man is in between these to ?celestial? beings, as one represents good and all of its qualities and the other represents evil and all of its qualities.  Without them, Man would have nothing to avoid (hating, murdering, raping, lying, stealing etc), or strive for (love, charity, courage, loyalty, etc).  Without those sins and virtues, man would still be  ****-ting in the woods, like some ape.  Yes, overall, man sucks and has a lot of explaining to do, but at least he is, was, and ever will be something worth being.  By thanking God (believing) or pissing on the Devil (believing), we're still better than some chimp swinging in a tree.  And I say that in the sense that we're here for a reason.  

Answer 3

unfortunately rationality cant be used to answer this question because those who believe those things dont do so through rational ways. we are all humans and as such all our actions and thoughts dont necessarily all have rational roots, as the belief and love of god clearly show.



oh and ... i dont know much on the subject and could be wrong but isn't jesus the son of god?       "if God created h**l and if Jesus is God"

Answer 4

Unless your name is Sarah, you plagiarized this. You didn't, "add the if," as you put it. See link.

As an editor, plagiarism is repellent to me. It's also illegal. :-)

Answer 5

God created h**l to put people who are bad like the murderers and molesters and evil people he would not put the people who are good and kind and obey him in h**l. also Jesus is god's son he is not really god. if god put random people in h**l just for the heck of it i highly doubt anyone would worship or follow him

Answer 6

That is a very good question!

You deserve a medal for, "BEST QUESTION ASKED EVER". LOL.

I am a Catholic, and I hate to say this, but I don't know if God created h**l, or if Satan did.

Jesus is God. I think that many Christians believe that Satan created h**l, not God.

I also believe that h**l is an emotional and spiritual torture consisting of eternal seperation between God and the person.

I think everything that is Religious is a mystery. (Like the Trinity, h**l, heaven)

This has always been the story that I was told:

God had arch-angels lined up. One of them, named Michael was doing wrong and went againest God. God then sent Michael to a terrible place called h**l. I think that is how h**l was formed. Not really God creating it, but I guess that God wanted Michael (who is the devil) to be driven out of h**l to a place where he could never come back to heaven again. I don't know though.

Great question though!

GOD AND h**l AND HEAVEN ALL EXIST!!! LOL  

Answer 7

1 h**l is a "home" for fallen pride, the one who betrayed God is existing-right, in h**l his place its kindda his little apartment, ...wha? "bad guys" need a place too. So God gave him his place, he loves everybody and gives a chance to everybody.

2 Jesus is loved by Christians not for creating a torture, but for LOVE he had for human kind, he sacrificed his Innocent blood to wipe our signs (He did willingly). It is an example of FORGIVENESS and LOVE. And Christians are worshiping this love not torture. The torture Jesus choose for himself, so we won't have it and He wasnt peeking for what and for whom, in His way we all deserve it, cause all signs we did are from Devil, he believes in lighter side in each of as.

3 Devil is an example of what might happend when you go against that love and light.

.....i dunno, is it really so hard to understand or u just dont want to?

EDIT ok, intentions of God was not to create torture, but when u dont follow Him, thats what happens-h**l, devil, signs, troubles. the point is not to see God as the gray old man who will punish you if ll not listen, but as the wisdom of life, life does has its "law and order",...some kind of path which leads you to the best any could be or have.

devil and h**l is a living example of what will be if you broke the law and order a.k.a pure love (cause law and order is to follow if you are not clear enough to accept pure love, and do not get in trouble yourself at first) ......and it wasn't Gods wish to create h**l, h**l is a product of going against love, which did devil.   ...and the second BIG point is, the biggest democrat is God, he can do anything, he knows everything, he is the source of life, but he is generous enough to let us choose what we want ourself + by that he reavels his trust and love for human kind, concidering us not to be dump enough and come to the light willingly, not forcefuly.

.....why punishments? (preventions from going further in a wrong direction) cause as the main thing for good parent is to teach his child about the difference between good and bad (and parental love in its purest form will be the closest to the eternal love) as the same God is not turning his face from us as soon as we did smthg wrong, but send us signs, gives us another chance or call it consequences of our own wrong choice (crossing the "law and order" of life itself, and h**l will be the final destination, limit)

Jesus loves you by washing of ur sins, torturing himself. Can you crusify urself for ur neibour? ..or ur enemy? He did id and he does, but if we dump and like blind kitties then wha? If you r fallen of the rock and refuse to take helping hand?

He did what he did (more then enough), now its ur time, thats why i regard God as the biggest democrat.

h**l and torture was "introduced" to God by sinners, the product of their choices.

nick p, there is no "money" in haven, they dont give "change", its a final port, you have it or u r not, u can be half good half bad on the earth, there will be one or another after judgement day, does it bugs u? it really shouldn't, thats jelousy talk, sinnnnnnnnnnn! ))))  

Michael never was fallen angel, thats misunderstanding. It was many, if i am not wrong 13, but Michael never was the one. Michael is Arhangel, the leader of seven Arhangels and all haven's forces.

Answer 8

Man, I didn't understand a word you just said, but it makes a lot of sense. Naturally, we are a figment of our imagination, confined within the boundaries of our minds. Accept everything, deny nothing.

Answer 9

This may have some weight, if it were true that all people deserved the same rewards. But, is that true? Does the person who only works one day a week and the person who works all week deserve the same pay on Friday? Does the person who studies for the test and the person who doesn't and doesn't pass deserve the same grade? Does the person who abducts children and the person who lives in accordance with the laws of their country deserve the same freedoms? Some people deserve to be punished for the crimes they commit. I can love God knowing their is a place where those who hate God and want nothing to do with goodness are going to go just as I can love a country who punishes murders and child molesters by putting them behind bars making it safer for those who do not do such things. It's as simple as that.  

Answer 10

Well, you see, you really should have read the Bible before you posted this, even if you're not a christian. To make it short, One of the angle(satan) thought he was just as powerful as God, he got aprox. 1/3 of the angles with him for a rebellion so God cast them to "Eternal Jail". Then Satan tries to lure people in there, God protects you from there. And Jesus is not God, it's his son... I thought that was obvious enough with all the 'baby jesus' manger collectables for sale around christmas...

Answer 11

...they are believers of the man made...GOD and RELIGION...

...and im enjoying my life...thanks for asking...

Answer 12

I'm a little confused; if you are here to argue logic, then you need to state a conclusion drawn from your three premises; so the conclusion  

Christians can love Jesus follows.

Nothing in your premises denies this conclusion because you have not stated any reason that because God maintains a place of eternal torture Christians can not love.  

THIS is why your question belongs in R&S and not philosophy. Your question has nothing to do with philosophy, or logic. I know this sounds elitist . . . I'm not trying to do that. I am legitimately trying to help by pointing out that philosophy is not religion, has nothing to do with religion and should not be confused with religion. Even the religious proponents of philosophy (Aquinas, for instance) merely argued for the existence of God, not for the efficacy of any particular sect (in his case Jesus as Savior (not necessarily God by the way) was accepted).

If I were a Christian trying to refute your premises I would challenge the  first premise; either the words "belief" or "maintains".Even if I admit the premise (and you know as well as I do most of the so-called Christians here are not going to do that) I could still argue that love for Jesus/God is NOT disproved by your argument.

Answer 13

You did not miss any logic at all and in fact your three statements are the truth.

What believers know is that God is an eternal being.  And he created eternal beings like the devil and his angels as well.  In fact Matthew 25:41 says that h**l was originally made for only the devil and his angels.

And he created man with an eternal soul as well.

The reality is that while God is eternal love he is also eternal holiness and he is the eternal righteous that judges against sin.  Those are eternal qualities of God that will never change.  

So he has eternal places for those who choose to live with God in his eternal love.  And he has an eternal place for those that do not and will experience his eternal punishment.  

This plan existed long before he created the universe with man in it.  The love of God through Jesus Christ was to show how a loving God was willing to die for a rebellious and evil man.  And that when men saw themselves and their deeds in light of God's love they would repent of their sins and turn to God.

No man on the day of judgment who has heard the gospel message can tell God they were innocent and did not accept the truth and repent of their sin.  The only one they can blame is them self.  

Answer 14

Why anyone would want to have a meaningful dialogue with you is beyond me, you will certainly NOT come to any insightful truth asking and answering your own questions as you're doing learning is about asking the correct questions.