If Rocky Marciano is the best because of his undefeated record. . .?

Question

. . .Then why don't we just rank all boxers based upon their record?

I mean is this seriously the best arguement as to why he is the best?

Why not just rank all boxers by their records then. . .why only Rocky

Answer 1

being undefeated and winning a computer based fight simulation with ali helped that also.

I think rocky is one of the best physically and had the heart of a champion, but skillfully he was average at best and took tons of damage before he was able to land that crushing shot. he didn't have any real tough competition to over come but he wa likable and respected in the sport. I mean when he fought louis he knew that louis ws past his prime and only fought for money, and cried after he beat him. he was respectful to people and didn't use over the top promoters and antics to sell fights. he took remarkable damage in the ring and kept coming. for that he gets credit.

But I don;t think he was the best in the ring, but he did have a remarkable effect on the sport.

Answer 2

Ok back to the question at hand. A fighter should be based on more then just his record, Brian Neilson from Europe had like 50 some fights without a loss...he was a heavyweight so from a record standpoint I guess he is better then Marciano.

But of course we know thats not true, Neilson sucked. But Marciano dominated the competition that was available at the time. Sure the guys he fought were not good boxers, most were farm hands,Fireman,lumberjacks and local tough guys with no limited or no defense who took fights on weeks notices and did not have time to train while working there real jobs. Marciano ate them up of course, Marciano knew how to slip a jab, duck under a hook, get in and fire away and get out without getting hit cleanly in the process. He knew how to roll his shoulders to avoid taking the brunt of a punch. When he did step up his competition he did start getting hit more but he still pulled through and knocked out guys Like Walcott, Charles and Moore. But Walcott and Moore were well past their primes. I will give him credit for Charles, but Charles was giving the Rock a good fight untill he tired.

That is the one thing that the Rock has over heavyweights of any era was his stamina, he was one the most well conditioned boxers ever and is the ONLY reason Id give him a shot at beating modern heavyweights is because he could simply just outlast them, that's if he could take 7 or 8 rounds of getting hit by 230 to 260 lbs guys. But id be hard pressed to believe he could take even one overhand right from Lennox Lewis or an uppercut hook combo from Tyson.

Another thing Marciano would over allot of modern heavyweights including Lewis or Tyson is heart and will, but I dont think it would matter. Lennox and Tyson would look like monsters not from this planet to Marciano.

As for Ali vs Marciano, If Ezzard frustrated Marciano by moving and boxing imagine what a 6'3 -6'4 Muhammad Ali would do to him. Ali would keep a jab in his face all night and drop in overhand rights all night, Ali would let flurry after flurry go and even if the Rock did hit him Ali had the chin to stand up to it very well. Not to mention Ali had heart as big or bigger then Marciano I dont think there will ever be a heavyweight who had more heart then Muhammad Ali. Ali would tear Marciano to shreds and stop him mid to late rounds.

Tyson vs Marciano would be a train wreck. Here you would have two punchers who had similar styles of bobbing and weaving inside and letting loose with hooks. The big difference is Tyson was quicker, had more combos, hit way harder and had about 30 lbs on Rocky. With as great as the Rock was, and even though from a historic stand point Marciano ranks well above Tyson, this fight would not go 3 rounds before Marciano was stopped. Id like to think Marciano could hold, and move and tire Tyson, but get real, at 188lbs how can I figure Marciano could hold Tyson. Bruno tried to tie Tyson up and what did Tyson do? He let Bruno hold and just started banging with shots to the rib cage until Bruno was forced to let go, and Bruno has the hardest recorded punch of any heavyweight in history.

So even if Marciano could manage to grab Tyson to hold him, Tyson would just punch his way out. Lewis,Holmes,Ali in their primes all beat Tyson, but Marciano would last longer with any of them then he would Tyson.

But the question of how Marciano is ranked, the way I like to do it is to rank them by who was the man in their Era. Who was name and who was dominant. When you think of the early 1900's the name is Jack Johnson, hen you think the early 20's and late teens its Jack Dempsey, when you think of the 30's and 40's the name was Joe Louis, when you think of the late 40's through the 50's its Marciano, Then you got Ali,Foreman,Holmes,Tyson,Holyfield,Lewis and so on.

Thats how they should be judged, forget records,opponent quality, just who was the best man in his time period. I dont much care for Dempsey and Tunney was far superior but Dempsey was the man in his time.

Thats how I tend to rank them, because if you rank them any other way such as  Who beats Who,title defenses,records ext ext then the 20's to 40's cant really compare to the 70's to the present, as time passes boxers get bigger,stronger, more well rounded and they study and learn then improve on what the Marciano's, Louis's and Ali's did. Its un realistic to think that Marciano could compete with heavyweights 6'7 260 lbs...there is just no way. And the Jess Willard argument is absurd, Willard was a big slow and easy to hit, he had no boxing skill at all, he was a big strong farm boy who won a fight over Johnson who admitted later he threw the fight because of death threats against him.

And also people are right when they say Marciano got allot more credit because of his complexion, say what you will but back then black people had very few rights and the guys who wrote the books and talked the sport were old white men.

The white public of the early 60's hated Muhammad Ali, and most continued to hate him for years after and still to this day just as they did Jack Johnson because unlike Joe Louis, Ali did not go with the flow and stood up for his own beliefs, the fact that Ali is now considered the best heavyweight of all time finally over taking Marciano is a testament to just how great he was.

Larry Holmes fought much stiffer competition then did Marciano and he went to 48 - 0 or so before losing to Spinks,  but nobody ever really mentions that. Even though Lennox lost twice he still has beaten every man he ever faced, and too lose by knockout like he did and come back and in turn knockout Rachman and kinda McCall (however you wanna look at that fight) sais allot about the desire of Lewis.

Good call Elmur

Answer 3

Rocky beat the best fighter in the world the heavyweighht champion Jersey Joe Walcott in 1952 and again in one round in their rematch.   Regardless of his age or anything else he was the champ.  Rocky then beat Ezzard Charles twice who was just about the same age as Rocky and still a very good fighter and high ranked contender.  Rocky defeated highly ranked Roland LaStarza rather easily, pummeled Don Cockell the British champ and finally beat Archie Moore who had earned the number 1 ranking by beating. Nino Valdez and Bob Baker.  Problems with his manager, his wife wanting him to retire and some back problems is the reason Rocky retired and still on top when he did and undefeated.  He never fought Liston because in 1955 Liston was still rather early in his career (about 14 fights) or Patterson who was a light heavyweight that wanted no part of Rocky.  Rocky is an all time great because of his refuse to lose mentality, fierce punching power, great heart and stamina.  He never ducked anyone in his career and though he didn't beat as high of a level of competition as say Ali, he fought the best during his years as champion.  I know what your point is and it's well taken.  Remember Rocky never feared anyone in the ring and would have been tough for anyone.  Where you want to rank him is for the opinion of experts, but I think he should be ranked very high based on his accomplishments.

Answer 4

Folk that exclaim Marciano as the best ever ONLY ever mention his undefeated record.  I can give you a dozen reasons why Ali would have cut him up like Thanksgiving turkey.

I really think there is little point in arguing with Marciano-as-the-greatest fans.  Every single one of them believes what they believe from an emotional standpoint.  It's either hatred of Ali, or, and this'll tick some folks off, but SOME Marciano fans simply like the concept of a white guy knocking around every black guy he ever fought.  You can't argue what a person feels.

When you get the smart fans that divorce themselves from emotion and break down the heavies, 95% of them say it's Ali.

The real argument is who is #2.

Answer 5

i strongly agree with toughguy. i'm yet to see any boxer in the heavyweight division that fights like rocky. he reminds me of laMOTTA. he has the ability of making solid or thunderous bombs (punches) looks like a jab. he's one of those IN YOUR FACE fighter. we'll be lucky if we've someone like him in our time. i'm sure if joe loius had defeated him, all you critics won't say he has passed his prime. ali might be the greatest but rockly is definitely a boxing god.

p.s whether u choose this as ur best answer or not, you seriously need some boxing history.

Ruddiger, pls do some proper research before answering question relating to boxing. try google to start with.

tell me,Ruddiger

have you ever been in a fight or see a live bout?not the one u watch on tv.

u've rocky this, u've rocky that. i've asked lots of question on boxing and everytime u give an answer,it's obvious you copied it from a website.speaking of tyson and lewis,it shows that u know nothing about what constitute a boxer's pedigree. what makes him a slugger,puncher or freestyler.i don't mean to be rude but it seems, you don't know the science at all. boxing is not just about throwing fist,dancing round the ring.they's an ART to it. the difference btw tyson,lewis and rocky is their ability to take punches and lash out. each boxer develop his own style according to his strenght and weakness. is just like a football team formation. pls stop answering questions on boxing.

Ruddiger

anybody,anywhere,anyday can claim to be a

boxing fan because of guys like you. i could recall asking this question."who could have won btw Roberto Duran vs Julio Chavez Cesar and Tyson vs Foreman?" and this was your answer.........

Duran Vs Chavez..mmmm man, I wouldn't bet a penny on that fight. Here you got two similar fighters with Chavez boxing more then Duran, but although he did not always do it Duran was a good boxer and moved well when he wanted too. Im going to say Chavez sticks to his boxing and countering and Duran gets restless at the pace of the fight and tries to excite the fans and pick it up, but in doing so he loses to the steadier Chavez dropping rounds he cant make up and loses a close decision. But again.... I wouldn't bet a penny on it.

Tyson Vs Foreman I could see going either way, early I could see Tyson stopping George, but If George makes it past 6 or 7 which I think he could do then I think George would stop Tyson late. But again it depends on who lands and who can take more shots.

what do you mean by who lands and who can take more shots?

chaxez box than duran? pleeeeeeeeease.

what planet are you from?

is this the kind of answer u get from someone who claimed to be a boxer or know about boxing?

like i said earlier, stop driving us. try to learn more from those names you have mention. hope,they are not like you.

Answer 6

I will be very straight with you and keep it short and simple. Marciano is white and white guys like the idea of a white unbeaten fighter period. marciano beat legends that were past their primes and taxi drivers. he had no jab and his defense was rudimentary at best, 80% of the people he fought and beat do not even have articles on wikipedia and for the most part they were part time fighters. He was 188 pounds and fought with other guys that would not even be considered heavyweights today......HONESTLY it does not take a genius to know that he would not have been able to beat most modern heavyweights. but he is a hero in the mind of many white guys who identify with him so they constantly praise him and put him on a pedestal. One of the greatest fighters to ever come out of philadelphia is Joe Frazier yet when you go there whose statue do you see??? The statute of a fictional white fighter who never even existed!

Answer 7

First off, if Rocky would've faced Liston, Liston would've been killed in the ring! Second: Rocky had 49 fights, and WON 49 fights and was only ever knocked down twice!  Name me one other Heavyweight fighter in the history of boxing who was undefeated? Can't do it can 'ya?!

Answer 8

Rocky was the last of the rock em sock em types I think that most people know that Rocky is not the best heavy weight fighter some people just like to argue. Rocky had no jab and no defense but I love his heart no one had a bigger heart than Rocky he had and outstanding record but what everyone seems to forget is the big name fighters he beat were all well past their prime I think Walcot was 50 the last time the fought and it took Rocky 9 rounds to finish him

Answer 9

Yes he was the best. He fought a ton of fights (49) & never lost, he was only knocked down twice in all 49 fights. Greatest knockout in Heavyweight history (vs Walcott). He took on everyone would would fight him & beat them all. He beat the best competion in the game during that time. Those fighters might not be big names to day, but they sure were back then.  

Answer 10

rudigger your answer started off great and i agreed with what you said then you let in your personal feelings elude the truth..why did you mention other predudiced participants?.you know your stuff but you are a biggot and refer to other biggots for reference?..shame as you are a thinking man and have let yourself down!..a racist in disguise?  

Answer 11

Okay......An Angelo Dundee story was recently revealed about the Computer Fight between Marciano & Ali.

Thousands of statistics were fed into the Computer ( which was the same Computer that orchestrated the Moon Landing ) and Ali & Rocky sparred for approximately 60 rounds over the course of a week & a half.

Rocky was serious & dropped over 50 pounds and purchased a new wig knowing that he was being filmed.

In as much as the Computer had not selected an " ending " various endings ( Ali by KO, Rocky by KO, etc. ) were filmed during the sparring.

Rocky & Ali were instructed that body punches were okay but punches to the head were to be pulled or limited.

Due to the height difference; prior to the start of the filming when the sparring commenced......Ali began to taunt Rocky by flicking his jab on top of Rocky's head knocking Rocky's new wig askew.

Rocky did not find this funny & told Ali to stop but Ali persisted in doing the same thing 3 times.

Rocky finally told Ali that if he did it one more time......Ali would be sorry.

Ali laughed & flicked his jab one more time on top of Rocky's head & Rocky let go a short right to the body that dropped a stunned Ali to his knees.

Angelo  added that since then Ali  had the greatest respect for the older Rocky.

Answer 12

it is because he is the ONLY ONE to EVER finish undefeated and untied, that's why they put so much emphasis on it, otherwise he wouldn't get the  attention he does. He would still be known as a great champion however.