If gender roles/traits are natural what about. race/class?

Question

Some people say that gender roles/peronality traits etc are natural, although if you study other cultures where whats traditional for us, their roles are reversed this does conflct.

But if you do believe that gender etc are natural behavours and not learnt, then how would you explain people from different classes, social groups and races acting differently?

You could take someone born in one class, or one racial group where the people act sterotypically in a certain way and bring them up in a different envirment with different values and they would turn out differently.

So if people believe that gender roles are natural do they also believe that race/class roles are natural too

Answer 1

Gender, social class and race are all different.  My generation was very different.  My mother raised me but we played outside, were less supervised (there was no kidnapping or pedophile scares) and healthier.

Today's generation stays in front of the tv/computer games, plays less sports and a lot have no father.  My exwife doesn't teach my son sports, take him out much, spend much time with him, teach him history, geography, literature, read to him, play wrestle with him (as a father would)  etc, etc.  Why?  Research indicates typically fathers play more with children...

Mothers and fathers are different, treat children differently etc.  Not sure if I have answered your question.  Sure you can deprogram and reprogram people.  It's happening now.  

But what will the results be?  More trapped boys in today's civilization?  And more privileged girls?

What does that forbode for the future?  Where will the privileged girls find mates?  Or will that matter.  Will this unfair treatment continue to lower sperm counts?  Will feminized boys fight Muslims as well?  

Does weaker boys mean a weaker Army?  Who will protect the feminists as they march into Africa and Arabic countries?  Maybe with our computerized war, men don't have to be as tough

as men of yesterday.

Answer 2

It all depends what you mean by 'gender roles'.  You can find a great variety in societies throughout the world, and throughout history, where women have been treated differently, have had different rights etc.

What you will not find, in any society in the world, regardless of class or race, is a situation where men have not been dominant and held the leadership roles in that society.  Nor will you find any society where women have not been the primary caregivers of the children.  That hasn't changed even in the modern world.  Despite the fact that in western society it is now the norm for most women to shove the children into daycare while they go into work, it is still mostly women who are actually doing the daycare.  Men are not eager to take on this role.

You can find women treated very differently in different societies, but you will find that women are generally looking after the children, and men are generally in charge.  Gender and race are not the same thing.

Answer 3

The main differences between gender roles and the roles of race/class is that gender role simply pre-date any complex human society thereby it stood alone as "natural" shall we say and unaffected by social constructs since there were none.

Differences in racial roles so to speak was certainly a social construction since there was no way to enforce it until we had developed a more complex societal structure which included some and excluded others.

Hope that helps :)

Answer 4

I think that labelling is getting in your way here.

People are individuals - they react to a whole host of variations in their upbringing.

Talking about them in groups ignores the problems that the descriptions can cause.

Answer 5

Interesting point.

At one time in western history, class roles *were* considered to be 'ordained' by god, and there were even laws to force people to stick to their own class. People of certain classes in England for example, could not wear particular fabrics, etc.

Great political and social revolutions such as the French revolution poked holes in that idea, and the 'new wealth' created by the industrial revolution allowed people to move 'upwards', after which the rest of us soon woke up that the main thing that separated 'us' and 'them' was money.

To some extent, race was treated the same way in the west (and in some other cultures, too) ~ conquered races in war were made into slaves, and eventually slavery was commodified and commercialised, with preachers and rulers spruiking the line that slavery was 'natural' for certain types of people.

It didn't take the enslaved races of the modern era quite as long to wake as the working classes, lol.

Nevertheless, even though we've known for centuries that queens and kings don't have magic healing powers, and don't 'rule' by some sort of 'divine right' (both these things were once believed as a matter of law), people still have great respect for aristocrats and royalty in every country ~ even places like France and the USA where they actually overthrew the monarchy!

So there definitely is a connection ~ and it goes a long way to explain why so many people find it hard to understand that just changing a couple of laws doesn't automatically mean everyone is now 'equal'.

Cheers :-)

Answer 6

Louise C is spot on - fantastic answer. There have never been any "matriarchal" societies; indeed, all societies are patriarchies (see Donald Brown). Don't listen to sociologists.

There is little to add, except that the genetic difference between a male and a female (of the same race) is absolutely enormous compared to the genetic difference between males of different races.

Edit: I'm aware of what you meant. I repeat: there have never been any "matriarchal" societies; indeed, all societies are patriarchies. That goes for East Africa, Polynesia, South-East Asia or anywhere else. Your average sociologist or women's studies tutor like to think differently of course, but they inevitably can't give the relevant evidence when it is demanded of them. They will say "the Iroquois are egalitarian" (or some other society). But ask them to cite an anthropologist who claims that the men are not the leaders and they'll come up empty. (Women aren't even allowed to be leaders in Iroquois society)

Read this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Men-Rule-The...

Answer 7

They're all part of the human condition. Which is natural.

Answer 8

Sorry my dear, but you need to do a lot more study.  The reason why some people believe gender has an influence on behavior is because there is ample research to demonstrate that there are measurable biological differences between male and females genetically, bodily, and in the brain. Whereas, there is nothing obvious about class/race that suggests potentially natural inborn traits existing. Clearly, class has little to do with biology and race only superficially. This does not mean that all gender differences are inborn, but it does mean that some important ones probably are.

Answer 9

Exactly! And gender 'roles' vary greatly all throughout the animal kingdom too!

I think environmental factors play an enormous part in what roles each member of a particular group play.

I know little girls who have been discouraged by their own parents from playing with traditionally 'boys' toys (which are often far more interesting and educational than traditional 'girls' toys)! I think this is wrong, and totally mad!

Thanks! :-)