If the astrological roles were to be reversed....?

Question

We all know that all the earth and water signs are feminine and air and fire are masculine.

The masculinity and feminity are astrologically described as being extroverted and introverted in nature and probably have more or less to do with the way mammals have evolved to probably hundred of thounsands of years ago. Before the males became hunters because of good combat skills , females had been the " masculine " figure in the family for being better at picking up and collecting fruits , sustaining the family / groups , the inward reserved quality was the masculine trait and vice versa

So , if the roles between them were to be reversed , and the females still retained their " masculine " role in the family,groups,communities . Would the assignment for masculine and feminine signs be different ( i.e earth,water being " masculine " and air, fire being feminine ) ? And how would this affect the whole astrological definition ?Or astrology or whoever found it really forsaw the change?

Answer 1

Hi Ryan!

I don't think that it would make a difference. I agree with Janet. It makes up the Yin and Yang. One isn't good without the other, regardless. There are masculine females and Feminine Males. I think that we need to stop generalizing on a genders capabilities and treat them as human beings. I'm sure that isn't going to happen in my life time though. Good question Ryan. Don't know if I've helped you or not.

Answer 2

Good morning Ryan -

I don't think that the zodiac assignment for masculine and feminine signs would be different.................this will give me some food for thought today, and I will be back later after I gather more ideas :)

Okay, so the more I read this question, the more confused I get in my thoughts, but I'll answer briefly that the signs were not determined to be masculine or feminine based upon the behavior of humans and their gender roles for a specific evolutionary time period.  

Also, women do still maintain many masculine roles in families, groups and communities, and because a role is deemed masculine or feminine does not mean that a masculine or feminine dominated chart can't fill the role. For example, a woman with many masculine signs can still be a good mother - seen as a feminine role; a man with many feminine signs can still be a good engineer - seen as a masculine role, but the approach may not fit the traditional view.  A fire sign is masculine; a trait of masculinity is to be able to be a warrior when necessary.  However, a water dominated chart can also be a warrior, regardless of gender, if the ideology of the conflict involves protection family, friends or country.  An earth sign is feminine, a trait of femininity is receptivity to emotions, empathy and compassion.  However, an air dominated chart can also be empathic if it involves an intelligent understanding of the issue. Now, it's my turn to state, I hope this makes sense.

Also, take away all societal constraints on behavior, and I think you would find that there would be all kinds of role cross-over of masculine and feminine.  However, one is not better than the other - it is all ying and yang, imo.

Edit:  ha,ha, Ryan; h**l, I don't know.

@Isabelle:  great answer - did you find the more you thought and typed, the dizzier your head felt?  Anyway, I just want to let you know that I liked your response to the TD.  I am inspired by your attitude.  Maybe we can start a TD support group.............we can take turns facilitating =)

Answer 3

Hi Ryan !

hmmmmmmmmmmmm....good question to ponder.

Needs brainwork though....and time..

It reminds me how some languages have feminine and masculine genders for nouns ( some like German have neutral as well).

for ex : cancer : home/country : in some language it is the "mother"..(mother tongue..motherland) and in some it is the father ( Vaterland).

What is considered feminine in some languages, hence a group of people is considered masculine by others...wonder about the origin...

Do not know if I make any sense at all and where I am going again:-))

will come back..

.........................................

back ...much later.....Oh you got great opinions from RA, etc..am of not much use..........well TD : bad publicity is better than no publicity at all right ?? (grinning).

I do not think the astrological symbols would change but the interpretations of the charts would.

Water sign are energy drawn within and fire sign energy manifesting out.

I think that is why one has to be careful reading a chart without knowing much of the background.

Let's say women with a lot of fire might have been considered totally unfeminine, uncouth etc a generation ago and suppress their energy elements. And what you suppress you meet from the outside.

In the same way, men had to be "masculine", show offs, never cry nor display any emotion but that is all changing now. By and large..

Maybe people are coming to understand themselves better? and lots of former taboos are starting to get discarded ?

Just reading on here, it is kind of nice when men do say : hey I have feelings too...they just do not express it the same way.

The feminist movement has done a great deal , although maybe some took a bit too far -...

Nonetheless men will always be men ( with lots more testosterone) and women will express themselves differently.

Hence an " astrological sign" can manifest very differently according to men and women.

For ex: I have always found that Cancer men had a different attitude to life to Cancer women. They are both emotional but for different reasons. I see a lot of Cancer men being passionate about their countries, past, genealogy, nature..whereas cancer women still wonder more of what is bothering them in the close home environment. Since it is a Cardinal sign, i get the impression that cancer men are more goal oriented in life............( my opinion) than the gals who are more into their personal feelings.

Biology will alway play a big part whether one wants to accept it or not......( my opionion). You cannot change your Y and X chromosomes...

It is getting more and more of a societal question I think now..

So am a bit dumbfounded...

Answer 4

Good question.

Okay, since it's a bit complex, I'm going to start from what I believe.... I do not think that Astrology is or can be affected by social roles or models. The roles which every society gives to its members can be of "masculine" or "feminine" nature, regardless of the particular person's gender.

The labels "masculine" and "feminine", though, are clearly perfunctory....Therefore, they do not affect a person's character.

Let's take women first...Women used to have roles traditionally connected with Yin energy...and up to a certain degree, they still do. (e.g. receptivity or sensibility- qualities connected with motherhood). However, their career expectations and social changes demand the kind of energy (Yang) that they didn't really use back then...Therefore, I'm inclined to believe that Astrology is not subject to such changes, because in this case, women do not abandon their "feminine" side....IN CONTRAST, not only do they not cease being "feminine", but they are also called to use their "masculine" potential equally as much...

The same thing happens with men. They are no longer trapped in the macho stereotype which, in a sense, "caged" their personalities and forbid them to grow and expand the way they wanted. And not only are they free to use their "Yin" side, but it is also demanded by the needs of societies nowadays. Nobody appreciates a good scientist, for example, if in fact he's not human first...and human means sensitive to feelings, which is traditionally related to Yin energy.

So, to answer your question, I do not think that Astrology changes....The only thing that changes according to the social stereotypes/standards, in my opinion, is the part of our charts that we take advantage of...

And now that I happened to notice, it seems like modern societies need more and more "neutral" people, regardless of their gender....They need a balance between their Yin and Yang energy.