If we are Rome, then should we still try?

Question

http://www.roman-empire.net/articles/article-003.html

I thought this was interesting. Most of the things (there's plenty) that led to the fall of Rome have/are still happening in America. So do you believe we are Rome, and if so, can we ever rebuild this country?

Answer 1

No I do not believe the US is Rome since they fell after they were invaded. I do believe thought that History is destined to repeat itself in interesting ways.

Answer 2

As the great historian Will Durant pointed out, "it took longer for Rome to fall than most other civilizations ever lived."  Rome lasted a thousand years.  During her tumultuous history there were many times when it appeared that she was about to "fall."  However, new leaders and movements arose to "right" the capsizing "ship of state" enabling her to sail smoothly again for generations or even centuries.

Students of America history can find some solace from the trauma of the present by reflecting on how crisis in our own past were overcome.  Perhaps we may be at the dawn of a new progressive age.  A new American can be built, but it is going to take great effort from us all.

Answer 3

I really agree with Ten Commandments said.

You can still try if you love your country. I don't believe that future is already been written. I believe that you Americans can still make a difference before your fate will turn just like the Romans'.

Answer 4

rotorto, Rome was far more powerful. We have more influence but Rome had absolute control over other countries.

Rome may not have had control over the entire world but they had control of the world known to them. As Rome expanded so did their maps.

Do I think Rome and the U.S. have much in common? Of course I do. You need to read "The City of God" by St. Augustine. He wrote the book during Rome's fall. Many Romans were blaming all of Rome's troubles on the Christians and St. Augustine used writing to fight back. I'll see if I can find an online link to the book later.

Rome's fall was due to their incapability to protect their borders, uncontrolled immigration, greed, societal collapse of morals, lack of responsibility for actions, and poor leadership.

America's border problem is but a speck of dust in a desert when compared to Rome's. Immigration in this country is not bad enough yet but it will be if the government grants the illegal immigrants already here amnesty. On everything else we are equals.

Is there hope for this country? Of course there is in a Democracy but we have to vote for the right person.

The reason we had a 9-11 attack was because the U.S. meddled with other countries. Since WWII, it's been U.S. policy to monitor the affairs of other countries in order to protect people. Unfortunately what this does is give the world a reason to hate us. Our Constitution doesn't allow us to meddle with other countries. We're supposed to be an isolationist country.

Immigration in this country has to be monitored and regulated or else we'll have more immigrants that citizens. A government can only function with citizens.

Greed, immorality, and not being responsible for our own actions is rampant in America. They're a deadly cycle and the only way to fix this is to make people be responsible for their actions. If someone spills extremely hot coffee on themselves, they're the one who is at fault for spilling it.

I could go on and on about the similarities about the fall of Rome and America but you get the picture.

Here's the book. http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf102....

Answer 5

No I don't think the US is Rome.

Nor do I think you can compare the US and the Roman Empire. Nor the world today to the world 2000 years ago. Besides, the US is much more powerful than waht the Roman Empire ever was. The Romans were the hegemonic power only on the euro-mediterranean part of the world, whilst the US is the hegemonic power on the whole world. Of course, every dominant power is doomed in the long term. No one rules the world forever. After America, others will come. But America will not fall apart into pieces and dissapear from history as the Roman Empire did. There will always be America, although one year it will cease to be the dominant power that it is now.  Like all the others that came before America.

@Ten Commandments

I respectfully disagree. Just have a different perspective.  

Besides, I would say that the main cause of the Roman decline and decadence (the main one) was the economic crisis, a huge structural one, of the late Empire. And i don't see that happening to America. Not in the near (and not so near) future, at least.

Nevertheless, there are some things that today's americans have in common with the late romans, like self-indulgence and pessimism. No real reason why!!!

Answer 6

There are many parallels to Rome and America, but there are also several key differences.

For one, Rome lacked a clear system of checks and balances. All of the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial power was focused completely in the hands of the senate. Senators were legislators, military commanders, and Province governors. This system intrinsically fostered the "winner take all" antics of the late republic as power became focused into fewer and fewer hands. In America, no congressman could ever achieve executive authority without being formally elected, first. Furthermore, there is a clear dividing line of Authority between the army and the government. All military officers are promoted to General from within ranks, and the only civilian offices that have command of the military is the  Department of Defense and the President himself.

This problem was further exacerbated in Rome when the Marian reforms were enacted. The Marian reforms solves many problems, but left one critical one present; veterans benefits were handled by the general of the legions, not the state. This bred soldiers who were more loyal to their leaders than they were to the state, which is why men under such charismatic leaders such as Pompey Magnus, Lucius Sulla, or Julius Caesar, had no qualms about marching on the eternal city and imposing order. This could not happen in America because veterans benefits are handled by the Federal Authority, and the States have their own internal defense forces, the National Guard, to deal with domestic threats which require military attention.

This solves a major problem which bled Rome dry in its later years. In the early 3nd century, the Roman economy began to collapse as a bankrupt state couldn't do anything to stop it. This led to the crisis of the third century, when the Roman economy was virtually torn apart by competing warlords jockeying for position, and the people and senate of Rome were helpless to stop it.

Remember that all of the founding fathers were avid fans of classical history. Thomas Jefferson, in particular, loved to read the classics in their original Latin. Each of the founding fathers were well aware of what happened to Rome and were prepared to take measures to avoid its ills when formulating America's government.

Of course, there are similarities. The Roman state during the principate grew ever more intertwined with the economy, granting large estates to nobles and keeping the masses happy by using the state treasury to fund aid programs like free food and free healthcare (yes, Romans had hospitals which were completely free to any man, free or slave, in the empire). The state had to resort to an ever perpetually increasing list of demands that the mob levied on them, and by the late 2nd century, these demands kept the state virtually bankrupt. The Romans first caught wind of these financial problems early, but their response was to increase the cirulation of money via inflation. Inflation was a quick fix, but gradually impoverished many Romans, until hyperinflation in the 3rd century drove the empire into a state of collapse, saved only by the reforms of Diocletian, who essentially organized the Empire into a top-heavy bureaucracy where all private enterprise was amalgamated into state run institutions called guilds (for artisan trade skills) and Collegia (for all merchant enterprises). This essentially occified the Empire, leaving them unequipped for any changes, such as climate changes which drove farms into ruin, and invasions from Germania and the steppes which the Empire was too poor to repel.

America, sadly, seems to be following in this direction, with inflation and debt used to prop up decaying state-run institutions. And of course we are facing an ever more fickle American mob seeking an ever more expanding list of demands which they levi on the state to provide.

As far as the old "Rome was too decadent" argument goes, well, I'd contest that. It would be like someone in the future judging America to be a den of festering depravity by judging it based on the antics of people like Linsey Lohan or Paris Hilton. The truth is that most Romans, especially in the middle class, were family orientated, religious, and quite praising of hard work. Remember that the Roman ideal (the Roman "dream" if you will) was to be a small farmer who tended his crops in the fall and marched with the army in the spring. Furthermore, the Empire got progressively more religious as history wore on and as Christianity took root, and various institutions that the Christians took issue with, such as public baths, the games, and homosexuality, were delt with, and with rather alarming religious violence, I might add. By the 5th century, Rome was completely a Christian nation, and raised the banner of the cross in all levels of the state as well as the army. That is not indicative of a pack of s*x mad lunatics.

Answer 7

you have to try if you love your country.  And you don't know the future so you can't be sure what happened to rome will happen to america.