Imagine you are arguing with an ignorant but open-minded American... ?

Question

Imagine you are arguing with an ignorant but open-minded American about the U.S. past. What example in history would you personally use to prove the U.S. doesn't have a clean record with other countries? That they have contributed in some way to another country's suffering? Also, what are some things in American history you think the average American knows very little about?

Answer 1

CIA overthrow of Mossadeq in Iran in 1953.

CIA assassination of Diem in Vietnam in 1963.

CIA overthrow of Allende in Chile in 1973.

US invades Grenada, deposes elected leader in 1983.

US invades Panama, arrests dictator in 1989.

And that just what I thought of off the top of my head.  Many, many other examples, going back to the genocide of the Native American in the 19th century.

And these are just American examples.  There are probably not many places on earth without an example at some point in their past.  Conquest is not an American trait, it's a human trait.  America is simply the most powerful now, so they get all the bad press.

Answer 2

Well, after a extend research i am sure somebody could mentioned dozens, even not, hundreds of unclean and questionable and not always noble acts in u.s.history. You said "What example in history would you personally use to prove the U.S. doesn't have a clean record with other countries?" i try to give examples (and may opinion how the things i see)which include also acts effected only usa inside. But if you really discussing with an igonrant american, i guess he will deny, giving anti-arguemnts or simply continung ignoring, saying this is untrue and bullshit and so on. So you should nevertheless check my examples to be sure because my answers would be too long, if i wrote or coppied the story of everything. Maybe some could be considred as conspiracy theories.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;...

http://www.bushflash.com/animation.html

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info...

The Native American thing, usa is big, settlers come to live in peace and freedom in democracy what they didn`t had in europe, to form the usa which is the spirit of today usa. great, but would like to know how the indians see it which live in today reservations or who living in cities as normal american citzizens, what else should you do if people settle on your land and establish a nation, you have to assimilate with it. Civil war wasn`t only to liberate the black slaves from the south. It`s said the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor because of the oil embargo by the u.s. the contra-argument is, the u.s. want to stop the killings in china by the japanse. that`s interessting, if i am right, the u.s. made an embargo of iraq after gul war 2. Both didn`t work. In my opnion the us.politicans knew it wouldn`t work, but so they don`t loose their face, they could said "we did an embargo, but it didn`t worked, we had to fight". i think the us-governments don`t do offensive moves, they do tricky and obscure. There were thoughts Roosevelt knew the j**s would bomb pearl harbor, but didn`t inform the usforces to push america into ww2. however, the thoughts couldn`t be proven right. it`s said the usgovernment knew what went on the n**i-concentration camps, they made areial pics of auschwitz. bush excused and said it was a failure not to bomb the railways to auschwitz or ohter camps. it`s controvers if bombings would hade a big positve affect, however the story has a bit taste the allies didn`t cared about the holocaust. the average person, neither the german or u.s. knew what happend i am sure, but the politcans knew, i am sure. they hanged some nazicriminals, but sometimes they worked together with them, after the war. famous person wernher von braun, but i don`t think he was a real n**i, but the u.s. continued some n**i-experiments, search for mkultra. I readed that the bombings of hiroshima and nagsaki wasn`t at all to save the lifes of a million american solider. a theory is, it should impress stalin, stolen gold from the j**s played also a role. i give you a link, translated by babelfish from german http://de.babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_...

US war crimes

http://de.babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_...

http://66.196.80.202/babelfish/translate...

Abu-Ghraib - well the soldiers got condemed, but it seems the higher officers up to rumsfeld also knew whats going on untill orderd the tortures.

Military operations

http://de.babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_...

The USA supported the taliban in their war against the sovietunion in afghanistan and the usa supported Saddam Hussein. Both had terrible effect on the people. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" but at the end it is still my enemy which i have to fight. Afghanistan and Iraq to liberate the people, but well and do not oil played a role in iraq qar 3? Everybody knows, oil is running out and it`s could be good to save oil or to get a monopol of one of the biggest oilfields in the world - in iraq, but i think oil wasn`t the only reason. What about North Korea? Ah, yes someone else could liberate them, eh? But i guess NK doesn`t have any worth thing to make profit also?

CIA was involved in drugsmuggle

That`s what comes in my mind.

The others gave too, good examples.

I wanted to add this,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looted_art

Famous --> Quedlinburg Treasury

http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/onlin...

The USA didn`t ratify the ICC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Stat...

I am sure as i said, you can find more if you search more, but i also think, that would be the top of the icemountain, the rest we ordinary people, will never know.

that`s it and i hope you got some examples and good luck with the american, if you discuss with someone :-) if or if not, think about the following quotes with context of history, closer to u.s.history.

"the winner writes the history" i don`t know who said it first.

"The US psychiatrist formulated Robert J. Lifton careful after becoming known the recent torture practices of the US military: “It lacks in the American experience a tradition of the admission of wrong behavior and serious errors.”"

a german proverb says "people rather believe a beautyfull lie, than the ugly truth" another german proverb says "fishs are getting caught with fishing rods, people are getting caught with words and promises"

Napolen Bonarparte said once "Dictators got the privilege to can be silent.  Demorcacies do not have this privilege, thats why they need to lie over and over again"

Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.

Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.

Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

Misattributed Adolf Hitler

    * The great masses of people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one. Especially if it is repeated again and again.

Variant:

    * The bigger/more blatant a lie, the more people will believe it.

          o This misquote could possibly have two possible sources: an abridged version of a paragraph in Mein Kampf regarding the Big Lie, or a report by the United States Office of Strategic Services about Hitler's psychological profile[6]. The second version is very close to an actual quote by Joseph Goebbels.

Plato 427 BC – c. 347 BC

    * Democracy passes into despotism.

          o 562-A

    * The people have always some champion whom they set over them and nurse into greatness. ...This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector.

          o 565-C

    * When the tyrant has disposed of foreign enemies by conquest or treaty, and there is nothing to fear from them, then he is always stirring up some war or other, in order that the people may require a leader.

          o 566-E

Socrates

The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance

George W. Bush

You don't get everything you want. A dictatorship would be a lot easier.

Enjoy the Clausewitz Quotes

War is the continuation of politics by other means

No one starts a war-or rather, no one in his senses ought to do so-without first being clear in his mind what he intends to achieve by that war and how he intends to conduct it.

Answer 3

You could mention the US support of dictators in Africa during the Cold War. They supported, for example, Mobutu in Zaire (now Democratic Republic of Congo) who ruled with an iron fist for 30 years while completely looting the country's wealth. He was one of the richest men in the world. The US supported him during the Cold War because he was a reliable ally, i.e. was not a communist. Ultimately it was (and is) a question of ends justifying the means. Is it worth it to prop up a corrupt dictator at the expense of the majority of that country's population to keep Soviet influence out of Africa? There are other examples, like in Angola and Liberia, where the US backed corrupt and violent people only because they were supposedly fighting communists or controlled strategically important territory. Lots was done in the Cold War that would seem contrary to the high ideals the US was fighting for. One cost of victory in the Cold War was the hardships borne by the populations in places like Africa; hardships that contribute to the current instability in many African countries. Was it worth it? This is debatable.  

Answer 4

The over throw of the Hawai'i'an Monarchy and eventual annexation of the Hawai'i'an Islands.

As for what most Americans know - - - actually very little especially when you view the answers on this forum.  Many Americans 'know' the headlines, the 'sound bites, the stuff that bobs to the surface of the toidy-bowl after futile efforts to flush - - - but as for the details very little.  Such as the oft suggested remark about the American Civil War having little if anything to do with Slavery or odd fallacies such as Warren G Harding being America's Worst President.  Most every detail about America's involvement in the Vietnam War is clouded in ignorance.  And then there are two stolen Presidential Elections; one in 1876 and another in 2000 in both cases American's blithely assume all was above board and that two men honorably took on the duties of the American Presidency; Rutherford Hayes and Geo W Bush.  

http://www.hawaii-nation.org/soa.html

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLE...

Peace//////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\...

Answer 5

Look at Panama Canal project vs Colombia.  

Iraq War 2

The Current U.S. Arms trade on the international scene  (we sell the most weapons on the world market, many of them wind up in the hands of less than friendly people.)

The United States expelling the Cherokee Nation from their native lands in Georgia in order to obtain Gold, despite being protected by the Supreme Court Law and International treaty.  See Trail of Tears