Important question .................???

Question

I was talking to someone about the relation between turkey and Greece .. he said many greeks hate Turkey because it used to persecute them, and he gave me a link about the persecution of Greeks by turks .. I told him that there were persecution on both sides .. but I really need some links about the persecution and massacres of Turkish people by Greece to back up my argument

Also I want to know how reliable are the information in the link he gave me:

http://www.greek-genocide.org/press.html

Answer 1

Please visit the Turkish propagandistic sites to read the truth....lol.

Answer 2

i know this is not the right place to ask but you not allow e-mail.

Are you turkish

Answer 3

Do you want to find out the truth or do you wanna make the Turks seem saints? No thumbs down please if you want me to speak objectively. The truth is based on facts. These are the facts:

1)Greeks were for about 400 years enslaved by the Turks. In 1821 they rebelled. They killed Turks and Turks killed Greeks. Who was right it's up to you to decide. Personally I believe, that when a nation is oppressed, reaction is a natural consequence. There is a theory supported by the turks that Greeks were given privilleges and lived harmonically with the Turks. The truth is that only a minority of greeks (phanariots and a few greek villages) were given some privilleges. The vast majority of the simple Greeks were "discrimated" by the Turks (janissaries, taxes, no property etc). Mass massacres in Tripolitsa, Chios , Psara,Casos and Mesolongi took place during the Revolution. In Tripolitsa, Turks were killed and in the other places Greeks were killed (Eugene Delacroix has represented some of these in his works).

2) 1897: war between Greece and Turkey. Turkey won.

3) 1912-1913: Balkan wars. All balkanian against the Turks. Greece won.

4)First World War: Turkey supports Germany, Greece supports the Entente. Entente wins and Eastern Thrace and Smyrna region were given to Greece. Large greek populations lived there. In 1920, elections in Greece. The majority of Greeks voted for the royalist party that promissed to end the war and bring back the soldiers to mainland Greece (they fought for 7 years continuously). Apparently , the royalist party deceived the Greeks and continued a war against the Turks and brought the greek army near Ankara. Turks say that Greeks attacked the civilians of those regions, while Greeks say that the army attacked only turkish partisans. Ataturk finally won the war, cause greeks were away from their military bases and burnt Smyrna in 1922. The turkish theory says that the Greeks burnt Smyrna (their homes). Well, in my opinion it would not serve anything to the Greeks. As a winner, Kemal Ataturk demanded through the Treaty of Lausanne (1923) a population exchange between the two countries. 1,5 million greeks left Turkey and 0,5 million Turks left Greece. Greek courts sentenced to death the six generals that promoted the greek army deep in Asia Minor.

4) In the meanwhile, Kemal had commited what we, greeks, call the Pontic greek genocide (1919). We call it a genocide, cause Turks killed 350,000 Pontic greeks and expatriated 1,000,000 Pontic greeks for no particular reason (they didn't belong to the army of Greece, they were just civilians).

5) 1955: the Istanbul Pogrom and the aftermath. 270,000 greeks, who lived in Constantinople, were excluded from the population exchange. Some agents spread away rumors that greeks had burnt Kemal Ataturk's birth house in Thessalonike. Turks nationatists started atrocities against the protected by the Treaty of Lausanne (a win-treaty for Turkey) Greeks of  Constantinople, until the truth was revealed. Greeks never burnt Kemal's house. Turkey continued that policy against the greek minority though and now only some 5,000 of greeks live there.

6)1974: Turkish invasion in Cyprus. The dictator of greece, supported by the Americans, tried to annexe Cyprus to Greece with the persecution of the legal government, led by greek Makarios, so that the Turks could find an excuse to get on the island. Turks invaded in the island, instead of the Treaty of Lausanne, where they said they had no claims on Cyprus, and occupy until today the northern part of the island. They killed thousands of greek cypriot civilians and expatriated the rest of them from their homes in Northern Cyprus.

Of course, I didn't mention the other atrocities (rapes etc.) and the kills of soldiers, cause wars include those losses for both sides. I refer only to civilians.

Answer 4

How can you argue with people who pronounce the word genocide so lightly? Although the term has a technical explanation, they disregard it and describe all of their disappointments as genocide!

Greeks killed tens of thousands Muslims in and around 1915. Greeks forced them out. Greeks have been ignoring their basic demands of the handful of Muslims left until EU stepped in. But do you see web sites talking about "Muslim/Turkish genocide by Greeks"? What they did was ethnic cleansing, but do you see the "West" condemning them for it?

Just ask ethnic Macedonians, Albanians, Gypsies what they have been going through.

Just ask where the Jewish population of Salonica is now? Ask them about what they were doing when n***s were shipping Jews off to Auschwitz. As far as I have heard, they were jeering and celebrating!

Agh! War is already an ugly thing and it gets uglier when the perpetrators make a scapegoat of the other side.

http://www.amazon.com/Death-Exile-Cleans...

You see, we don't have ignorant ranters crying genocide. We have well documented historical books by respected historians talking about it.

Answer 5

the link is realiable because all of the articles were printed in the New York Times and Los Angeles Times newspapers and Times magazine which are the most reliable papers in the USA and in the world.  Also none of the sources were Greek its all European and American magazines and newspapers that talk about the atrocities done by Turks to Greeks.

Check out the quotes from both Western AND Turkish officials aknowledging the atrocities and genocides on the Greeks.

http://www.greek-genocide.org/quotes.htm...

Answer 6

It's a ridiculous claim to blame only one or the other side.

The period around 1915 was a bloody one and has caused a lot of pain in both nations. With fascism increasing all over Europe, Greeks were also inspired by the "Great Idea" invading Turkey to rescue what they thought it is their own historical land. They commit brutalities in their way and went as far as 80 km outside Ankara. With Kemal Ataturk (a Turkish national born in...northern Greece), Turks fought back. They won creating the modern Turkish state. But they also burned homes, displaced people and brutalities were consistently reported. The complete destruction of Smyrna was the final outcome. As a result, about 1.5 million Greeks were displaced from Turkey and about 500.000 Turks lost their homes in Greece and moved to Turkey. This was the biggest ethnic cleansing ever reported in modern human history. If you need a fair documentation you must read the book "twice a stranger" by Bruce Clark.

There is no war or conflict with a good and a bad guy. The wounds are still there today on both sides. Period.

As for some answers I see herein, there are as close to reality as Venus to Mars. People must travel and talk to people. This is the only way to discover and learn.

Answer 7

ok Miko...do you know what happened in 1911 with the Micrasiatic disaster in Smyrni???Probably only greeks are taught their history well...Then many Turks with Kemal Ataturk as their leader killed and slaughtered all the greek populations!the situation was soooo detrimental that greeks were trying to escape from the harbor by climbing on boats so as to survive and turks cut their hands...!This is true...other people fell into the sea which was full of dead corpses!Turks burned the whole Smyrni and with brutal ways slaughtered almost the whole greek population...Women were raped and there was an absolute disaster...But this was not the only massacre of Greek populations but exactly the same happenned in 1821 and in Byzantium Empire where Othomans killed them all...the same happened in Pontiaks and Armenians who found a terrible death by Turks...

However i don't know what Turks are taught in their schools but the fact is that 95% of the times Greeks are the victims!

And i haven't heard absolutely ANYTHING  about genocides or slaughters or massacres of Turks from Greeks...

But as you can see feelings and relationships between the two nations are mutual!

Answer 8

Pontic Greek genocide has already been recognised by the International association of genocide scholars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internation...

why the Turks dont go there to put a questionarre about their...haha,genocide by ...GREEKS???

We are talking about 350.000 killed persons,for gods shake,not 1.000 not 5.000 but 350.000.

AND THIS IF THIS ISNT ETHNIC CLEANSING WHAT IS THEN?

If what they did in Smyrne/Izmir (rapes,killings,exiles,forced to leave,throw in the sea) is not ethnic cleansing what is it????

and look at the Greek minority in Turkey ,how many the members were and how many are now...from 200.000 are 5.000 now...dont you feel suspicious what they did them???Maybe...just Maybe they forced them to leave??

Also,as Tottaly Blunt said,just ask the ALbanians,what they went through...

ASk them WHAT THEY DID IN GREECE WHEN THEY WERE ALLIES WITH AXIS....Allies with the n**i if you know what means.....

Look what ALbanians have to say about the "bad" Greece which has 700.000 albanians now...(if we treat them so bad,why they are coming more and more every time????especially now,where they ll be in nato and their economy is growing,they keep coming more and more)

As about the Gypsies,take a look about the criminality that Gypsies (in every country,not only in Greece) have.Or better,have a look in EVERY country about the contitions for the Gypsies.

As for the Fyromians,we have talked so many times about their lies,the whole world is laughing with them..

But that not something that has to do with nowdays (as far as concerned,Greece and Turkey) so they just have to put these aside (their denial as well) and move on...just like Germany did....

Answer 9

Important answer .................

please check out these links and please tell your Greek friends that they can visit and read the truths about your important question...

http://www.greekmurderers.net/

http://www.cyprusblog.org/category/turki...

Answer 10

Dear Miko,

Well, I think, I did not get the point ...

What do you mean ?

Is this a question or answer ? Or just a Comment ...

You mean, Turks Bad, Greeks Good ?

Everytime, must we speak old  time ?

How about Future ?

Why do not you speak about Future ?

One point for you, My Village is in Greece, Someday I will visit there and Kiss the Ground ...

May I ?

Answer 11

Greek massacres of Turks

"No sooner had they landed than they began a ruthless warfare against the Turkish population, not omitting the commission of atrocities in the worst Near Eastern manner, they laid waste the fertile Maender Valley, and forced thousands of homeless Turks to take refuge beyond the occupied area."[53]

Historian Taner Akcam noted that a British officer claimed:

"The National forces were established solely for the purpose of fighting the Greeks...The Turks are willing to remain under the control of any other state...There was not even an organized resistance at the time of the Greek occupation. Yet the Greeks are persisting in their oppression, and they have continued to burn villages, kill Turks and rape and kill women and young girls and throttle to death children." .[54]

Inter-Allied commission in the Yalova-Gemlik peninsula, in their report of the 23rd May 1921, during the Greek occupation of western Anatolia, wrote that:

" A distinct and regular method appears to have been followed in the destruction of villages, group by group, for the last two months, which destruction has even reached the neighbourhood of the Greek headquarters. The members of the Commission consider that, in the part of the kazas of Yalova and Guemlek occupied by the Greek army, there is a systematic plan of destruction of Turkish villages and extinction of the Moslem population. This plan is being carried out by Greek and Armenian bands, which appear to operate under Greek instructions and sometimes even with the assistance of detachments of regular troops."[55]

Inter Allied commission also stated that the destruction of villages and the disappearance of the Moslem population might have at its objective to create in this region a political situation favourable to the Greek Government.[56]

M. Gehri, the representative of the Geneva International Red Cross who accompanied the Inter-Allied Commission wrote as follows:

"...The Greek army of occupation have been employed in the extermination of the Moslem population of the Yalova-Gemlik peninsula. The facts established -burning of villages, massacres, terror of the inhabitants, coincidence of place and date- leave no room for doubt in regard to this. The atrocities which we have seen, or of which we have seen the material evidence, were the work of irregular bands of armed civilians(tcheti) and of organised units of the regular army...Instead of being disarmed and broken up, the bands have been assisted in their activities and have collaborated hand in hand with organised units of regulars."[57]

Arnold J. Toynbee wrote that they obtained convincing evidence that similar atrocities had been started in wide areas all over the remainder of the Greek occupied territories since June 1921. [58] Toynbee argued that: " the situation of the Turks in Smyrna City had become what could be called without exaggeration a 'reign of terror', it was to be inferred that their treatment in the country districts had grown worse in proportion." [59]

According to a number of sources, the retreating Greek army carried out a scorched earth policy while fleeing from Anatolia during the final phase of the war after each battle they lost.[37][38] For instance Middle East historian Sydney Nettleton Fisher wrote that:

"The Greek army in retreat pursued a burned-earth policy and committed every known outrage against defenceless Turkish villagers in its path."[39]

James Loder Park, the U.S. Vice-Consul in Constantinople at the time, who toured much of the devastated area immediately after the Greek evacuation, described the situation in the surrounding cities and towns of Ä°zmir he has seen, as follows:

"Manisa...almost completely wiped out by fire...10,300 houses, 15 mosques, 2 baths, 2,278 shops, 19 hotels, 26 villas…[destroyed]. Cassaba (present day Turgutlu) was a town of 40,000 souls, 3,000 of whom were non-Moslems. Of these 37,000 Turks only 6,000 could be accounted for among the living, while 1,000 Turks were known to have been shot or burned to death. Of the 2,000 buildings that constituted the city, only 200 remained standing. Ample testimony was available to the effect that the city was systematically destroyed by Greek soldiers, assisted by a number of Greek and Armenian civilians. Kerosene and gasoline were freely used to make the destruction more certain, rapid and complete. Alasehir, hand pumps were used to soak the walls of the buildings with Kerosene. As we examined the ruins of the city, we discovered a number of skulls and bones, charred and black, with remnants of hair and flesh clinging to them. Upon our insistence a number of graves having a fresh-made appearance were actually opened for us as we were fully satisfied that these bodies were not more than four weeks old.[the time of the Greek retreat through Alasehir]"

Consul Park concluded:

1.The destruction of the interior cities visited by our party was carried out by Greeks.

2.The percentages of buildings destroyed in each of the last four cities referred to were: Manisa 90 percent, Cassaba (Turgutlu) 90 percent, Alaşehir 70 percent, Salihli 65 percent.

3.The burning of these cities was not desultory, nor intermittent, nor accidental, but well planned and thoroughly organized.

4.There were many instances of physical violence, most of which was deliberate and wanton. Without complete figures, which were impossible to obtain, it may safely be surmised that 'atrocities' committed by retiring Greeks numbered well into thousands in the four cities under consideration. These consisted of all three of the usual type of such atrocities, namely murder, torture and rape.[40]

Kinross wrote: "Already most of the towns in its path were in ruins. One third of Ushak no longer existed. Alashehir was no more than a dark scorched cavity, defacing the hillside. Village after village had been reduced to an ash-heap. Out of the eighteen thousand buildings in the historic holy city of Manisa, only five hundred remained".[41] It is estimated some 3,000 lives had been lost in the burning of Alaşehir alone [42] In one of the examples of the Greek atrocities during the retreat, on 14 February 1922, in the Turkish village of Karatepe in Aydin Vilayeti, after being surrounded by the Greeks, all the inhabitants were put into the mosque, then the mosque was burned. The few who escaped fire were shot.[43] The Italian consul, M. Miazzi, reported that he had just visited a Turkish village, where Greeks had slaughtered some sixty women and children. This report was then corroborated by Captain Kocher, the French consul.[