In the context of the Labour Theory of Value, can labour ever be value subtracting?

Question

Zimma - this isn't a question of whether a firm will ever invest in a value-subtracting operation. It's a question of whether labour must always add value to a good -- as it appears to me that the LTV predicts. Since it obviously doesn't (German car example again) I want to know whether this disproves the LTV or whether I am misinterpreting the predictions of the LTV.

Answer 1

Labor theory of Value is not a scientific proposition in the sense that it is not a testable hypothesis that can be subject to falsification test. LTV is a tautology: it sayss that when the first capital equipment was produced it only involvrd labor. Subsequently, all output came with labor and capital equipmenmt ( which is nothimg but past labor embodied). By definition, only labor created and creates value. Unfortunately  capital equipment is owned by the capitalist in capitalism and hence labor does not get the full share of valuee addition, a part is expropriated by the owner of capital equipment which represents surplus value created by labor but not distributed to labor.

LTV therefore can be really applied to real life situation of a firm. Because under LTV, labor past and present, is the only factor of production. So whereever there is production, there is value added by labor only. It is almost like saying that  water is the only factor of production because whatever we use in the production process would not have come in the first place if there was no water.

Stil if you want to prove that labor can destroy value, you can just cite an example: the example ofsabotage by striking workers.

Answer 2

You seem intent on finding someone who will validate this idea for you.  I'm sorry, but no business in their right mind would ever intentionally spend money to lower value.  It just doesn't work like that.

edit:  but labor is an investment by the firm, it doesn't just happen in a vacuum.  Someone has to make a decision to pay the worker for labor, and no labor will be done unless someone is paying for it.  Unless the employer has made a terrible mistake about what the market wants or is willing to pay for their product, the labor will not be value subtracting.