Is 150 MPG for the new hybrid an appropriate measure?

Question

Or should its environmental and economic impact be given in tons of COAL per mile or MPT?

(Or a measure of SO2 or CO2 per mile?)

Answer 1

All aternative fuels should be researched and considered until they find one that makes the most sense, both enviromentally & financially.

Answer 2

i will believe it when i can buy one.

we have heard this before.

VW claims they built a car that can get 150 mpg without pluging it in and where is it

i do not care about the CO2 if i can run it with bio diesel.

then it is a clean car.

Answer 3

As long as it is helping the environment in a way which people can understand then that is a good thing!

Answer 4

CO2 is carbon it effects Greenhouse emmisions..

Alot of people dont understand that if they buy these hybrid cars yes our dependency on foreign oil will go down but dependency on foreign coal will go up because about 90% of electricity is produced by Coal. And the more electricity we use the more coal we use. Then the electricity will cost about the same of about 3 lts of petrol per kilowatt.

Answer 5

Probably both. Even though CO2 doesn't harm anything really.

Answer 6

I think they should include the emissions from recharging a plug-in hybrid or electric ar, but that's tricky because the emissions depend on where the vehicle is being recharged and what the power grid looks like there.  For example, a battery being recharged in California has much lower emissions associated with it than a battery recharged in Wyoming.

However, on average the US power grid is only 52% coal, and because of the efficiency of large power plants and electric motors, studies have shown that plug-in hybrids and electric vehicles are responsible for far fewer greenhouse gas emissions than gas vehicles.

In addition to providing an efficiency measurement of miles per gallon, plug-in hybrids should provide an energy per mile measurement, power companies should provide a CO2 emissions per energy measurement, and all cars should have a CO2 emissions per gallon or mile measurement so we can compare environmental impacts of different types of cars.

Answer 7

not at all

Answer 8

I'm with you, it's time to measure this in more meaningful ways, like acres of coral killed (due to CO2 acidifying the ocean) per mile, or acres of trees killed (due to SO2) per mile.

Furthermore, what gets missed is the impact of manufacture.  The Prius, for example, requires a *lot* of energy to manufacture, because it is very complex.  Compare this to the ultimate cost of manufacture for the Tesla Roadster (all electric) or the EV1.  They have no catalytic converter, muffler, ignition, starter, generator, belts, plugs, oil/air filters, a simpler 2-speed transmission (reverse is electric, not mechanical).  These life-cycle energy issues should be factored in.

Answer 9

NONE of the currently commercially available hybrids have the ability to plug into an electrical outlet.  The only source of power is conventional gasoline.  The gasoline engine provides power to the hybrid battery through one of the electric motors acting as a generator.  Some of the lost kinetic energy in braking is recaptured through regenerative braking (wheels spin a generator, slowing down the vehicle), which also reduces wear on the conventional brake pads.

There are no commercially-available plug-in hybrids on the market so far, unfortunately. Some hobbiests and aftermarket companies have been altering a few hybrids (Prius, Ford Escape Hybrid/Mercury Mariner Hybrid) to make them plug-in capable. Typically this requires adding additional hybrid batteries, besides the ability to charge off the mains.  For more information, check out http://www.calcars.org/vehicles.html

(I'll note that some of the manufacturers are looking into having a plug-in hybrid available in the future (2010 or so), such as the Toyota Prius and the Chevy Volt.)

For cost reasons, unless you are a fleet owner or other high-mileage driver it probably will not be worth the cost of the PHEV conversion for you. (Once the battery pack is depleted to a certain point the vehicle reverts back to its original hybrid self and runs on a combination of the gasoline engine (which will also recharge the battery) and the electric motor. A PHEV would add a greater all-electric range to the existing hybrid, besides the ability (but not the requirement!) to plug it into an electric source.

Depending on the source for electricity in your area, a BEV (battery electric vehicle) may or may not put out more greenhouse gas emissions than a 55MPG HEV (hybrid electric vehicle). Mainly, if the primary source for electricity in your area is coal, your HEV is cleaner than a BEV running on coal-powered electricity. However, if your electricity source is natural gas, the BEV is usually cleaner than the HEV (depending on the method used for natural gas->electricity conversion), and it gets even better for the BEV if you are using a hydroelectric or other renewable electric source. In comparisons with a generic 17MPG SUV, an average 26MPG vehicle, and a high-efficiency 38MPG vehicle, the 38MPG vehicle still will beat the coal-powered BEV, but isn't as clean as the HEV (and gas and renewables powered BEVs are much better than the 38MPG vehicle).

see: "Battery-Powered Electric and Hybrid Electric Vehicle Projects to Reduce Greenhouse Gas Emissions: A Resource Guide for Project Development," July 2002

http://www.netl.doe.gov/products/ccps/pu...

http://www.eere.energy.gov/cleancities/i...

mainly section 4.3

(and that's besides the arguements that it's easier to manage emissions from a handful of electric plants, as opposed to millions of independently-owned cars... typically, electric charging rates (especially the off-peak charging times which would use otherwise lost power and level the loads) are still cheaper than petroleum rates, too. Of course, there are still emissions to worry about other than just greenhouse gas emissions, too.)

and yes, about 50% of the US' electric energy generation is from coal, but for your local power outlet depends on your power company and the local mix:  http://www.eia.doe.gov/fuelelectric.html

and since someone else brought it up, Here's the 2004 Toyota Prius Green Report (life cycle assessment):

http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/k_forum/tenji...

(you'll need to download the Japanese fonts for your PDF reader in order to read it, but the entire document is written in English.)

Over the lifespan of the Prius, when compared to a comparable mid-sized gasoline vehicle, the Prius comes out ahead in the life cycle assessment (LCA) for airborne emissions for CO2, NOx, SOx, HC, but actually does worse for PM (thanks to the material and vehicle production stages).  Lifespan is given as 10 years use/100,000km.  The CO2 break-even point for the 2004 Prius compared to this unnamed gasoline vehicle is given at 20,000km. (more CO2 is emitted during Prius production, but the Prius makes up for it over it's driven lifetime.)

Answer 10

I saw the article too, all they could tout is you can go 40 miles on the battery then you have to use the gas engine...could give no proof of mileage...give me a break and they couldn't even show it in traffic or on a test track.

It will never be seen because they plan to sell the technology to the auto makers but if no buyers then they will make the car themselves...seen it too many times...just a filler article nothing news worthy.

Answer 11

I was thinking the same thing... that doesn't seem to register with those who are so wholeheartedly embracing the electric car.

Answer 12

You have a point. But anything that is THAT efficient is better.

The simple truth is that electric cars/hybrids produce less CO2/mile.