Is France more elitist than the UK and USA?

Question

While reading about the current scandal at Société Générale I learned that the perpetrator, Jérôme Kerviel, was unusual because he was not a Grandes Ecoles graduate as were most others holding similar positions at the bank.

Commenting on this, Hélyette Geman, a professor of mathematical finance at ESSEC, was quoted as saying that “I had students who have a hard time getting jobs at top French banks because of this elite system we have in France. In the U.K. and U.S., it’s less of a club based on where you went to school when you were 19 or 20.”

If true, this seem to me to be a serious indictment of the French system.

I would appreciate your thoughts on Professor Geman's opinion.

Is France more elitist? If so, to what degree is it elitist (minor, major, critical) ? What do you believe are the consequences of such elitism? What, if anything, should be done?

Answer 1

Germany has an "elitist" system.  Most countries do.  Although I wouldn't call it elitist, but instead hiring the smartest person.  If NASA hires mostly from MIT for its high level engineers does that make them "elitist"?  Schools have reputations and it carries over to business.

Jérôme Kerviel worked in a different division before and through hard work and at the time very good work was promoted into the position.  Hard working and good results gets you promoted.  Sounds American to me.

Answer 2

They do for City Traders (OxBridge) but everything else it isn't. Imperial College is the "one" to go to for Engineering but there area lot of Civil engineers working on the palm islands project in Dubai that are graduates from Liverpool and Cardiff

Answer 3

What about Canada, eh?  We're elitist too.  Oh, yes we are.

Answer 4

I'm American and French and I also lived in the U.K. for 6 years. I think both France and the U.S. (please leave out that pesky "A" that's only used for sports and can we have an article? ;) are in a way, more elitist.

If I had to rank the U.K. against France, I'd say that the U.K. was worse because of the accent system. Accents in France are pretty standardized, especially with young people so few get "pegged" when they open their mouths, as what happens in the U.K.

Both value education but someone with less education but the right accent/connections/family will still excel there while in France, you only have to do well academically. In fact, connections and family do count but if the individual doesn't pull his weight with the books, it will cancel out.

In the U.S., work experience counts more than degrees. Sure, we have Stanford and Harvard but if you don't show off what you learned, forget it. My sister has an Ivy League Master's and she felt pressure because she was "the one to beat" at work. She still had to prove herself, stellar degree and all...

Also, in the U.S., it's less where you studied than what. If you did Art at Stanford, that would do less for you than engineering at Santa Clara (often the best engineering schools in N. America are in really unknown universities).

In a way, someone who does well in school continues to have doors opened for them here in Europe while back home in the States, they can never rest. They have to continually prove themselves with job preformance no matter what and where they studied. Once you prove yourself in your teens and early 20's, you're basically set for life.

The other issue is that Americans often need more and higher degrees than the same job would in Europe.

You could say our system was fairer. Also, job changing is easier and those higher degrees are more flexible and easier to get than in Europe (and please note that I'm talking about the whole continent, which for us, includes the whole U.K.).

It's sort of a case of pick your poison...each system has its advantages and disadvantages.

Answer 5

La France élitiste?

peut-être bien, mais c'est en cherchant le meilleur qu'on trouve le bien, et non l'inverse.

Answer 6

My guess is that americans won't know what you're talking about OR say this kind o thing is common in USA

Answer 7

The equivalent in the UK is the Oxbridge system, which dominates the upper echelons of politics, the civil service and finance. Social mobility has decreased markedly in Britain after Thatcherism and New Labour. The problem with such elitism is that genuine talent is prevented from emerging in these sectors - whereas British science is quite dynamic, our administrative and economic institutions are schlerotic and uncompetitive.